Thanks, guys. Happy Fourth to you.

A picture truly worth a thousand words.

Happy Independence Day!

So -- the War on Terrorism is over then?

Uaaah...

Whats up doc? Need some glasses?

Doc,
Hindsight is always 20/20. You've obviously made my point.

On a lighter note, it looks to me like this is one Islamowhacko that got 'saved' by the bell, or did he just get 'gonged'? LMAO.

Methinks doc has a good point.

The Liberty Bell hasn't yet triumphed over anything.

So American Libery is going to fall in an attempt to stop Islamic terror. Is that what the cartoon says?

Nope.
The cartoon's a preview. The forces of Liberty are going to crush Islamic terror.
Count on it.

The Liberty of Iraqis is not subject to your perceptions -- only to theirs. Just at the moment, a good many of them do not perceive us as the Forces of Liberty.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

But then, who was it said a few weeks back that we were going to Shove Freedom Down Their Throats hereon? It was before I went to Canuckistan on vacation, if memory serves.

We haven't done it so far in Afghanistan, and the process in Iraq isn't presently going all that much better.

One of the hallmarks of True Liberation is how many of the liberatees sacrificed themselves for it. That's been true across the board. It was never how many exogenous nationals sacrificed themselves for it that carried historical weight.

Had the Iraqis liberated themselves eventually, they'd have something to be truly proud of. It'd be a fool's errand entirely to believe that future generations of Iraqis will spend a lot of time being grateful that Americans "liberated" their nation.

It's just never how it works.

I think Don makes the mistake of assuming that the skulking RPG assasins represent the will of the Iraqi people.

In fact many or most of the hit squads come from other countries, just as the "Fedayeen" were mainly expatriate Arab mercenaries.

See http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=506 for more info.

I think the cartoon says that when the war Islam has declared on democracy is over, democracy will have won.

American liberty has flaws - that's what the Bell says to me.
As for the cartoon... dropping things on people seems to be an American fixation. Oh well, as long as you kill them, hey?

Hay Poopmiester;

Aint you got an International Solidarity Movement meeting on 'Overthrowing the Zionist Laws of Physics' class to go to?

Thats what freedom is all about to a super patriot like you.

Catch ya in the funny papers!

I know that this could be considered BAITING, but I'll be damned if I'm goin' to put up with stupidity masqueradin' as ignorance - - -

DON! Did you catch any hangin' chad off'n that rock wall you were beatin' your head against? Nope? Scoop up any insects while you were skimmin' mud with the rest of the bottomfeeders? Nope? That's right! I forgot! You were fishin' with rod and reel, weren't you? Were you using that red herring for bait like I told you? NO?

Alan & Michele have instructed us in the fine art of argumentation. So - Let me 'splain the cartoon for you. Mr. Islamic Terror was taken to school. The school of hard (and dead) knocks. School's out for this one! Class is dismissed! The school bell rang! He got gonged, Don!

Now. You and your RKBA buddies better get to prep school. We've the added pleasure of commenting on the up and coming political fray, and I'll bet Alan & Michele were thinking only of your jaded ass-self when they added the page just for you. Maybe they could find a political cartoon in that realm occasionally, so you'll leave the more terrorfyin' cartoons to us right-thinkers to comment on.

Floopmeister! Another StupidNICin' NIC to play with! There ought to be an award for stupid NICs,, you know that? You have to remember that when Alan & Michele come up with a new page for NICs of Renown, or the NICin' Hall of Shame, you're goin' to be up against some pretty dead competition. That's a good sign, though. Not to run you off or anything, but that NIC smells bad. Sorta like has a Euroodor to it, with a brewspewage bite as an aftertaste. Talk to Pass the Gas. He may have a pointer or two on keepin' your stuff on the paper.

Dave -- your usual predilection for characterization discussions rather than on-topic matters may be justly ignored for the smoke-blowing that it always is.

Back in 1968, The Idiot Westmoreland had a little problem with declaring Victory well before it actually happened. The Dread Petard of Reality(tm) closed in on him shortly thereafter, and the results are known.

History is like that. This cartoon is no exception.

Allow me to pass on a discussion from Lord George Nathaniel, Viscount Curzon, whose knowledge of the Middle East was certainly far more extensive than your expostulations demonstrate hereon. Just consider it for the perspective it brings to the discussion, since the fundamental (npi) character of the Middle East and Middle Easterners has not really changed at all since he entered the discussion some 80 or so years ago:

"We must remember that the ways of Orientals are not our ways, nor their thoughts our thoughts. Often when we think them backward and stupid, they think us meddlesome and absurd. The loom of time moves slowly with them, and they care not for our high pressure and the roaring of the wheels. Our system may be good for us; but it is neither nor altogether good for them. Satan found it better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven, and the normal Asiatic would sooner be misgoverned by Asiatics than well governed by Europeans."

Adjust the language just a tad for the change in major players (Europeans were the invaders/occupiers at the time -- not Murkens), and the words of caution are worth a long ponder even now.

The Middle East has been conquered repeatedly across 3,000 years, but Strange Things happen to conquerors in the region over even the medium term. I remind you of what I said months back -- this is a region with Family Feuds that have gone on for over a millennium. Our comparatively short Western Attention Span is just another flash in the pan to those folks.

Dubya thought they were Beaten -- and declared that the War was over. They weren't and it isn't. Not by a long shot. And all the fussing, fulminating and flatulence of the wingnut contingent isn't going to change that.

Interesting place, the Middle East. Folks who didn't know where it was two or three years ago are now Instant Experts on its history, culture, religion, economy, sociology and everything else under the sun -- based, of course, on what they've heard on Talk Rayjo. But nothing else, it would seem.

Or do I need to quote the Kipling poem's salient passage to you once again, just to drive the point home? Santayana's observation is correct -- once again.

Don,
As with other proclivities of yours and others of your ilk, I will not drag dangling principles into your already muddied quagmire of an argument. Just because things were broke 3,000 years ago does not mean we leave them broke, you dolt. They may be tribal, but there is younger MiddleEasterners who have seen what can happen when the yoke of tribalism and Islamism is lifted from their shoulders. If that isn't looking out for our interests, while looking out for theirs as members of the larger community of humankind, I don't know what is. You seem to wear blinders about 95% percent of the time, Don. If you don't want to be part of the solution, sit right there in your barkalounger and be silent. Let someone who can handle the task do something to correct the problems. In other words, be part of the solution (silence is consent) instead of part of the problem. Does THAT ring any bells for you?

Strange, Dave, how one who professes to be such a believer in enforcing your version of Freedom on Someone Else, Somewhere Else can be so utterly resistant to the fundamental of what Freedom is about -- the willingness and/or interest in dealing with various viewpoints on matters of Public Policy.

It suggests a constricted view of the construct itself, the way you consistently demand that those who do not agree with Your Own Glorious Self should voluntarily take themselves out of the discussion altogether.

Freedom doesn't work like that, Dave. Best you bone up some on the concept, seems as how.

But let me put it clearly, in words you apparently can't understand: You're here. I'm here. Neither of us is going away. Demanding that we do seems, well, sorta silly, doncha s'pose? Why not just drop the demand as content-free altogether, and just get on with dealing with the matter at hand? Might that work for you? Works for me, certainly.

Can you handle the challenge?

And learn from History as well. The Santayana quote goes like this:

"Those who do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it."

Or words to that effect, anyway.

The History of the Middle East is known. The repetition of it seems well along. Why that is happening is open to considerable conjecture. Ignorance surely plays a part in it, but so does cocksure Belief in Military Might as the be-all and end-all of such matters.

Go figure.

Don,
Regardless of any preconcieved notion you may have about my interest in history, I would add only that HISTORY is something I am very interested in. Islamofascism is NOT 3,000 years old, BTW. Mohammed was a civil administrator around 600 AD. Slash your 3,000 year old timeline in half. The fact of the matter is, you are a whiner. You offer no solutions, but prefer to whine no matter the problem. I won't stoop to baiting you - you don't need to be baited. GWB has the wherewithal to consider our security to be a priority. The WTC fiasco happened on his watch. Not that similar fiascos didn't happen on someone else' watch, and I mean someone more to your liking, but the facts are, your guy(s) didn't deal with it. There's no real sense in pointing backward to look for solutions. Remembering the mistakes of the past is one thing, but you and our leadership cannot wear your blinders and find solutions to current problems. Hence, my suggestion that you sit back. I have seen no potential solutions offered from you. NONE. ZERO. Correct that perception if I am misguided by your posts.

Yet another myopic misstatement by Don >> [GW] declared that the War was over.

GW noted a milestone --- that major conflict had ended. Saddam had been thrown out of power. He did not declare the war as being done. It was important to celebrate this milestone, since the road ahead would be (and is) difficult.

Now the new guerilla war is being waged by the Islamic reactionaries --- and orchestrated by Syria --- the other terrorism-sponsoring Fascist Baathists.

Don's blindness apparently is rooted in the latest wishful thinking mantra coming from the enraged leftist opposition to GW, namely that we're rehashing Vietnam all over again. We heard it before in the cloyingly fearful reporting on how overstretched US supply lines had become during the assault on Baghdad. This leftist Vietnam filter makes it impossible to view any US conflict rationally. Everything spoken or done is sucked into an alternate reality and encoded according to the myths of past leftist glory. Nixon is dead. Edwin Starr is dead. (Westmoreland himself is 89.) Don’s commentary is really just a ghoulish séance with old bones.

TROUBLE! Thank you. I was beginning to think I was going to have to throw out some chum for Don, but you've come along to add fuel to the right side of the fire...

//Don’s commentary is really just a ghoulish séance with old bones.//

Beautiful analogy, Mr. Trouble. What exactly Mr. Don sees is a slippery slope argument. If we do this, that will happen and all logic goes out the window. These are feel good emotional responses with the added bonus of harassing the right along the way.

Proferring no solution except the 'lets get the hell out of there' scenario, which history has judged to be a false solution, they just harp along, waiting to be relevant again. It is a good sign that they have not given up on the process entirely, but overall, the sympathy reserved for the downtrodden of history should rightfully belong to them.

To My Fellow Patriots- My Sympathies.

Now buzz off! LoL

Folks - Don has posted elsewhere on this blog since he splooged earlier on this page. As is his usually proclivity for avoiding all arguments he is in danger of losing, he does not revisit, and will probably not revisit. As usual, he offers nothing and questions everything.

The parallel between The Idiot Westmoreland's premature claim to victory and the same claim in the cartoon above seems on point. The fact that TIW was in Viet Nam when he made the claim is not particularly important. He could have been anywhere, and it would have been equally stupid.

It ain't over till it's Over. And we aren't solely in charge of when it's Over, if the point isn't too subtle.

As for Dubya's suggesting that the War Was Over, that was certainly the sense of his comments, though he was, as always, punctilious about not saying anything specific. Several Pundits Of The Right breathed a collective sigh of relief when he said it at the time.

They were, of course, quite wrong -- as others were saying at the time, to the general opprobrium of The Right, who viewed such statements as tantamount to Treason. They huffed about it in a virtual state of high dudgeon for several weeks.

As for what the Looney Lefties had to say, I've never claimed either agreement nor responsibility for such clueless statements. In fact, back on 3/17, I said on one of the several amUsenet groups I hang on betimes that the outcome of the war was a Done Deal altogether. The world's only hyperpower and two second-rate powers were always going to beat a fourth-rate power that had no air support capacity. It's not as though that was ever a serious question. It was not the Cakewalk that some suggested it would be, and Shock & Awe worked only on the noozemeeja types, but never on the Iraqis. But it was, as such things go, an easy enough Victory at the time.

I also said, in the same amUsenet discussion, that the aftermath of the war would be the Only key matter worth discussing -- and that's precisely how it's turned out. It still is the only matter worth discussing -- and we're going to be discussing it for a long while yet.

Recall that when some folks suggested we were going to be in Iraq for a Very Long Time, the Wingnuts thundered madly away that we were going to hand over control of the country within months, if not weeks, and be out of there within maybe even this year. We'd surely leave an Iraqi Democracy behind as our legacy.

Not gonna happen, is it? Not this year, and not next. Count on it.

Likewise, when it was suggested that this military occupation was going to cost the US a large chunk of change, the wingnuts opined that Iraqi Oil would pay for it all.

That's not gonna happen either. Count on that too.

And when the wingnuts were Just Overly Certain that the WMD supplies of Actual Weapons would be found in Iraq all over the place, Just Any Day Now, that observation has likewise changed too. We'd now be pleased only to find Just A Little Evidence that perhaps some Iraqi scientists might have been thinking about a WMD program, and maybe scribbled a note or two about it.

Certainly not what was being alleged only a few months back. Quite the change, yes? One could see that one coming weeks before any of the wingnut contingent bothered to mention it.

Didja catch the link between the Two Trailers and the guy the FBI thinks might have caused the anthrax attack? Seems as how this guy worked on building a Mockup of the trailers well before the invasion -- based on information provided by the Iraqi defector. And lo, after the trailers were "found" in a junkyard in non-operational condition, and were spirited away for about a month thereafter in military control, when they were finally revealed they were substantially identical to the mockup -- even right down to 2003 castings, according to one report.

Surprised at that? Shouldn't be.

Regardless, there now seems to be general agreement that we will not find any stockpiles of Actual WMD's, so that discussion can now safely be put to rest. We've had longer than the UN inspectors had, ten times as many people on site, complete freedom of movement and a quarter million reward for any Iraqi who can lead us to anything at all. Nothing.

We now rely only on a "WMD program" allegation, the proof of which is going to reside mostly on Documents that we've "found" here and there.

Documents are easy -- even easier than trailer restorations.

And still, the wingnuts remain True Believers -- in things yet unseen.

Eventually -- not soon -- insight may occur. Or not. I'm betting not.

Don,
The R&R did your argumentation techniques not one bit of good. How could I have suspected otherwise? I'm beginning to think you're one of those conspiracy freaks. Are you? OBTW. If you have a point to make, or an argument to purport, why don't you just spit it out instead of splooging all over these threads? Repeating the SOS ad nauseum is a tad bit wearing, and since you can't comprehend the possibility of reality (other than the alternative one you spend your days in), I'd like to see you actually propose something, instead of proposing nothing.

Oh dear, silly me: thinking Bush saying the "major combat" part was over meant that the Iraqi army was smashed and the pacification phase was starting. I haven't heard of any Iraqi forces operating in, say, battalion-level strength, so I guess the "major" part is indeed over.

Odd how the discussions I had been in on months before the war mentioned not too much about actual stockpiles, and more of how Iraq was Not Complying with it's Obligation to Show It Had Destroyed and Dismantled it's WMD Program and anything it had produced from said Program.

But I'm sure that's something Don would Like To Forget whilst taking what Evidence that Has Been Found and declaring it Does Not Count since it's Not Enough for Don. Or just Sneeringly Implying it Must Have Been Planted, but Not Actually Say It so if someone dares call him on it he can wiggle free.

But I Must Admit, Don can provide a good illusion of Infinite Wisdom via Selective Hindsight, Sarcasm, and use of Selectively Capitalised Words as some sort of Emphasis.

Makes me Wonder what Don will say if, Gods Forbid, Iraq comes out of this as a Stable Nation, say a few years down the line. Probably find some way to Spin it so It's Still the Wingnut's Fault in some way.

Either way, methinks he's picked the wrong Scapegoat as Anecdotal Proof of Non-Victory in Iraq. The True Culprit is Eisenhower. After all, the War was Supposed to be Over in Germany, yet American soldiers were Being Killed by Armed and Rude Germans as late as 1949. So much for VE Day...

Unless I Somehow Missed the Iraqi Equivalent to the Tet Offensive happening recently... Some Mixed Nightmare of Dons, I guess.

(Egads, this technique of Don's is addictive. Must Try to Stop. Argh...)

Actually Dave, I rather admire his style. He is so obviously in good with the ladies, since he drops double entendres all over the place.

Always admire style. Probably trial lawyer.

Question: hey, what do you do if you see a trial lawyer drowning in the city square fountain at 12 o' clock?

Answer: go to lunch.

DON,

I could give a tinker's damn what kind of an argument you choose to use on amUsenet - I wouldn't even have a clue WTF you're alluding to, danglin' participle and all. I'm damed sure I could bait you, but I've been kinda sorta avoiding that avenue, since I rather enjoy matching wits with your slowass self. It's an easy way to pass the time. So, I say, put up, or shut up. And try one argument Don. Just one. A proposition if you will. Try it. I know you won't like it, but at least you've been warned before I set the hook deep in your slimy gills.

>>[Westmoreland] could have been anywhere, and it would have been equally stupid.

I think Don is getting stuck in the distorition field, because this makes no sense whatsoever. Without Vietnam, almost nothing Westy can be quoted as saying has any meaning. The only possible meaning that can be derived from Westmoreland's statements come by relating his words to the events that later took place in Vietnam --- and by extending that correlation to another conflict. Anything else is raging mania that's lost touch with reality.

Trouble,
Your last sentence will do just fine. Don will be dropping it like a cheap suit, however, because he lost in the year 2000.

Hey Don! You ain't a VN Vet are you? Didn't think so.

Dear Deviate's Killjoy,
Can't you see that irony that this great icon of liberty, 'Freedom's Bell', doesn't work? It doesn't make a sound - cracked and flawed as it is.
Hmm, can't make the analogy any clearer than that.
Actually, I never claimed to be a patriot. Why would I want to be one? Nationalism/patriotism is the philosophy of the cannon fodder, boyo.
Patriots are the the ones sent to do the fighting by the chickenhawks who preach the patriotism.
Cheers

Damn Poopmeister;

I hang out on this web page all day and thats all you got? One comment about not being patriotic?

No wonder your blog aint worth a dayum!

Can't you find a job at micky-D's?

DC! Poopmeister has a blog? Where? An alternate reality somewhere? Please share. I'm curious.

Poopmeister! Grab both cheeks next time, will ya? Your flappin' sphincter is spewing ugly green stuff on this page...

Dave;

If you got XP, just hang your mousy thing over the link on his name and the bottom of the pagebar shows where the link takes you.

Says here its somethin' called; 'Wolf in womens clothing'.... or somethin or other... Just clink his link!

Not worth the bother really.

Hey,
Been fun guys. Keep letting that cracked bell ring (or clunk, or whatever...)
You know, it's interesting... I've enjoyed reading this blog. Most of the postings have been intelligent and thoughtful. You only have to scratch the surface though... Mayhaps my first post was inflammatory, but then jingoism has always rung my bell (so to speak).
However, I've soon realised that this level of dialogue isn't really worth the time:
"Your flappin' sphincter is spewing ugly green stuff on this page..."
Mmmm. Is that really worth an answer?
Anyways, my point about the irony of the Liberty bell stands (in fact none of you have even addressed it). This symbol of Liberty is cracked - and it doesn't ring. Symbols are powerful (that's why political cartoons exist) but when you can't even discuss the symbols you use to conduct your national dialogue it becomes as fossilised as your vaunted constitution.
Cheers all - I trust you'll keep the bile flowing!

Poopy

Sorry!
I had such an overwhelming urge after reading your post to run to the bathroom and hang it over the portside!

I have absolutely no interest in teaching an eighth grade civics class to answer your idiotic spew question so I' am going to give you one step in the search of "crack in the liberty bell" saga; (kinda like one of those RPG games you spend hours playing, huh?).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=crack+in+the+liberty+bell&btnG=Google+Search

Now, how about answering some of my questions like why does your blog suck and what is REALLY going on at your job at McDonalds?

Heres a joke you might be able to get... If you have any problems unnerstanding it just ask Dave, he'll help ya'.

Question: What can you wear that never goes out of style?

Answer: A Smile!

Keep laughin' Smiley boy!

Actually, I think Wolf might BE in a holy place at the moment.
However, if he saw that title on a quiche eating, tulip boy, pinko leftie blog like that he'd probably climb through the computer and come out with flutemumbler's aorta in one hand and his gizzard in the other.

WHOA, MAN! I hope Herr Floopmeister does come back! This has got to be one portside puker on Fruit Loops(tm)! I was wrong about the green spewage! It's regurgitated kaleidiscopic koolaid stuff!
Floopmeister! You are definitely the go-to guy if'n I ever need directions in counterclockwise spinning!
The freakin' political cartoon bell has some words on it, but I'll bet you missed the meanin' of the second one by skipping 3rd grade reading comprehension class, didn't you? I'll bet you've got a job at one of those car washes where you plug the dollar in and get 4 quarters back that have that very image on the obverse, or at least they used to, back about the time your mommy dropped you like a sack of them bad boys.
I am truly impressed with your argumentation skills, Poopmeister. You remind me of another 'frequent flyer' we see here with the NIC 'Pass the Gas'. He too enjoys flingin' crap and makin' a quick exit portside, whilst offerin' lameassed excuses for departure. Methinks you have a difficult time defending your sorry excuse for pride out of sheer stupidity, as opposed to ignorance. Come back and see us sometime soon, but stick around long enough to enjoy the boogers we're liable to flick on your windscreen, you hear?

My god guys, that was too funny! LoL

BTW - Paid a visit to THE blog. Like Beevis says, "IT SUCKS, man"! I touched the 'contact' hot spot, although I really didn't want to touch anything... EWWW. It stinkith. Thanks for the warning, guys.

DDube:

Had you been paying attention earlier, you'd have seen another contributor hereon who confirmed my VN Vet status several months back. Indeed, if you are a clever little Net Weenie, you can do so yourself with only a little searching. Even pictures.

Twenty months, 1967-1968.

As for you "didn't think so" remark, I've come expect no less, and no more. The personal characterization stuff really is all you've got, but once again -- you're simply Wrong.

DON! Been there. Did that. The only way I seem to be able to elicit a response out of you however, is to BAIT you. OBTW. You bit.

Now that we have that little hook set, do you want to reread what I already posted for your perusal, or do you just want to flick boogers all day? Curious.

Sorry, Dave -- Life beckons. The garden needs tending, and other than setting you straight on my VN Veterans status, my entertainment needs are entirely fulfilled with the flagstone patio I'm installing on the top terrace. But do try again.

OBTW Don. Just how stupid do you think I am? I know what drives your miniature golfcart, and I have 'chadded' you about it in the past. I will continue to do so until you actually engage in an arguement or a debate on a proposition (ONE, and ONLY ONE) of your choosing. Let's see if you have any kahunas hidin' under that chadskirt you're wearin'. 'Nuff said.

Allrightythen, Don!

NEWS FLASH FOR ALL THE SHIPS AT SEA!

Don, O ILLustrious User of The Cap Key and Spreader of Bile and a Large Trail of Chad, has decided to take a page from the PtG playbook! He finds solace in a deckchair hard aport, right up agin the rail. He calls it a patio, but it's actually the poop deck.

Brilliant idea for you - visit the Floopmeister's blog. Something about a wolf in a holy spot. Sounds to me like a kindred spirit, cuz he ain't comin' back here either. Never met a portside puker yet that could stand the heat in the engine room. That's an analogy, Don.

AND, as an added bonus, and on thread - Don says: The Liberty of Iraqis is not subject to your perceptions -- only to theirs. Just at the moment, a good many of them do not perceive us as the Forces of Liberty.

Did you take a poll, Don? Did you hand out punchcard ballots and offer to tally 'em up? Methinks you pasted up a little chadhat which accessorizes well with your little chadskirt, and you definitely have no clue what a good many Iraqis perception is of the Coalition forces. Do you think they're all as 'unperceptive' as you are? Curious.

Well, I waited the perfunctory 8 hours, and lo and behold, not even a peep out of the squeeky Chadmeister... Another round of For Whom the Bell Tolls perhaps? Good idea for you Donnie. The next time you decide to post, print it out on plain white card stock, toss it in the blender, and then rearrange it into tiny little rows that look like chad. It'll probably make about as much sense as the nonsense you spew nonstop. Fair? Maybe you could arrange it in Haiku form as well? I remain very curious.

Hey guys,
A little cross-cultural quiz. Why do Australians call Americans 'Seppos'?
Hint: it's based on Cockney rhyming slang.