Nov. 4 will mark the 25th anniversary of the start of the Iran Hostage Crisis – a day when Iranian extremists and militants seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and captured several dozen U.S. diplomats, servicemen and civilians and began a 444-day siege that captivated Americans and the world.

Command Post contributor Ed Moltzen interviewed the youngest of the 52 hostages who had been held for that period, Kevin Hermening, who at the time was a 20-year old Marine assigned to guard the Tehran embassy. Since 1981, Hermening has become active civically in Wisconsin, becoming a school board and twice running unsuccessfully for U.S. Congress as a Republican.

CP: Does it seem like 25 years ago?

Hermening: From my perspective, there is so much that has occurred in my life since then. It rarely is given a second thought by me. It doesn’t mean that it’s ignored – especially in the context of current events. Obviously there are a lot of current events that have affected the way that our country has – and in many aspects hasn’t – dealt with the threat of state-sponsored terrorism.

CP: What are your most vivid memories of your time being held against your will by the Iranian students?

Hermening: Probably the uncertainty of knowing how it would all end, or if it would come to an end. There was so much emotion and drama and trauma during that time. Of course, the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan, the Iraq-Iran war began. There was the failed attempt to rescue us, resulting in the deaths of eight men who perished in the Iranian desert.

CP: Being a marine, did it make it more difficult for you?

Hermening: There were many aspects of it - including being young - that were involved. There was an element of adventure and excitement surrounding it. It doesn’t mean we were any less fearful. But when you’re 20 years old and you’ve been through military training you kind of feel invincible. How quickly that false image is shattered. Bravado is important, but only if it doesn’t result in your getting yourself foolishly killed. I tried to escape once – I never really had an opportunity later – that resulted in 43 days in solitary confinement.

CP: Hostage and then-CIA agent William Daugherty wrote a book two years ago in which he describes 444 days of mostly solitary confinement, and suggested he and the other military personnel taken hostage had it worse out of any Americans. Were you mistreated?

Hermening: After the failed escape attempt by a few of us, about a week later they had a mock execution that occurred in which they stormed into our rooms in the middle of the night, strip searched us and had us standing out in the hallway. Some of the most radical elements ran up and down in the hallway – we were spread eagle – and they were shouting out execution commands at the top of their lungs.

Meanwhile, others were in our rooms searching out for anything we may have had, including weapons. Although we know now anything can be a weapon.

CP: How did you plan the escape?

Hermening: Joe Subic, Steven Lauterbach and I – in my case, I never made it out of the room. They had taken us to a different building for showers. They put me into the only room in the ambassador’s residence that was a safe-room….I never made it out of the room. They immediately handcuffed me and put me into another room, in which I was put into solitary. Five feet by ten feet.*

CP: Were you able to form a bond, or friendships, with any of the other U.S. diplomats and civilians that lasts today?

Hermening: Alan Golancinksi was one. Don Cooke and I, we kind of became friends for the short time we were together. I was roommates with Alan right after I got out of solitary. That was a real relief to me to get out of solitary confinement. Some of the other guys in Vietnam who were in POW camps for seven years – my experience pales in comparison. It doesn’t mean it was easy, but I would never try to suggest our (situations) were similar.

CP: You’ve spoken of your admiration for Ronald Reagan and your opportunities to meet him. But some hostages, in returning from Iran, have said they were measurably cooler toward President Carter – whom you also met after you were freed. What’s your assessment of Carter?

Hermening: I would describe it that way, too. But for me, it was in my pre-political days…I would describe it – there was a cool reception given to him. For me, I would describe it as being honored to meet a president. I do think that President Carter is one of our best ex-presidents, though I would describe his presidency as a failed presidency. I fail, personally, to see the merits of putting the interests of 52 individuals ahead of the nation’s national security. I really do believe our situation was one of the first terrorist acts in a series that have victimized Americans worldwide. I would further say that when President Carter agreed to return $9 billion of frozen Iranian assets to the terrorist government under the Ayatollah Khomeini, as Charles Scott said, Iran walked away with no cost in blood or treasure. In essence, the terrorist organizations, those who put a face on terrorism – al Qaeda, Hamas and others – they get their support from governments. By not extracting a penalty, or anything punitive, I think it simply encouraged more acts against Americans.

CP: Looking at Iran today, some of the students who took over the U.S. embassy are now in positions of power, including Tehran Mary – who is an Iranian vice president – and one of the leaders who the New York Times has even described as a reformer…

Hermening: I just read recently that some are in the government, some are in the opposition – today – and some are in prison. That’s, in my opinion, what you get when you look at a group of anarchists which is really what terrorism is. Anarchy.

CP: Many of the same people who took you hostage are now seeking to expand a nuclear program for Iran. Is this something that angers you? What are your thoughts?

Hermening: That should scare the heck out of every American and anybody in the West and, I would submit, their Muslim neighbors. The other thing lost in the broader context is, that Iranians are not Arabs. Except or Israel and Iran, every other country over there is Arab or Arabic. Iranians are Aryans. Despite their common interest in a religious background, Islam, they do not share a cultural connection. Hence the acrimonious relationship between Iraq and Iran and some of their neighbors to the east. I was one of the few people I know, I think, who understood why (Gen. Norman) Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell decided not to take out Saddam in 1991. We weren’t prepared to deal with, as a country, militarily or diplomatically, creating a vacuum in Iraq where Syria and Iran could consumer that country. And with all the difficulty this President Bush has had in winning the peace, at least he is willing to fortify the forces. There are 16,000 forces whose job is to protect the oil fields from sabotage. I personally don’t see that as a bad thing.

CP: Do you believe there are enough pragmatists in Iran to ever see a successful reform movement?

Hermening: I think there are some forces over there that are interested in breaking the stronghold the mullahs have on their country. I don’t know. They’ve had, I believe, about two dozen government buildings burned by government protesters in the last two months.

CP: Anyone under the age of 25 – including what could be millions of voters – weren’t even born yet when you were held captive. If you could have them understand one thing about that time, what would it be?

Hermening: I think it would have to include what I consider to be a reality: that there are individuals and entire governments who are so opposed to Western values and freedom that they are willing to use every means possible to bring about our destruction. Even to the point they are willing to support financially those who are willing to come into our own country to make us fearful and uncomfortable without our own borders.

CP: Do people still stop you, and ask questions about your experience?

Hermening: It’s become less and less, just by virtue of the fact that I am more active in other things. I’ve done a lot of public speaking. I speak on Veterans Days and Memorial Days in schools. I make civic appearances. The sad irony is that people care more about what we had to eat (while being held hostage) and whether I’ve had any nightmares since I got back – which I haven’t – than they do wondering how did this happen to begin with, and how can we protect Americans here and abroad in light of what they’re trying to do today?

CP: Yet at the same time, the same holds true in Iran: Anyone under the age of 25 doesn’t remember what happened back then – they weren’t yet born. How does this work in our favor?

Hermening: I think that there is some hope, because young people do not have a historical attachment to the Ayatollah Khomeini…

Once you open up the Freedom Genie, the Technology Genie – whether it’s satellite dishes, or the Internet, I think it’s next to impossible to put it back. And that’s why I personally hold out a great hope for many of these Middle Eastern nations to become more democratic. Even for China to try to contain what is likely to spread like wildefire – and that’s economic development and recognition of personal liberties and civil liberties – I don’t think you can permanently keep that down.

In Iran, it was a very strong sense that the United States was meddling in the internal affairs of their country. The mullahs were very fortunate. They almost had the perfect storm: the Shah was getting ill, President Carter being a particularly weak president not standing by our ally, and we left (the Shah) and all of his supporters out to dry. This is the big concern that somebody like myself would have in a change of the administration in Washington right now. – would be people like the president of Pakistan, who has really gone out on a limb at the risk of his own political survival (although he has the iron hand of military power), Musharraf is using (the military) to support the war on terror. If we have a total reversal of policy, what’s it going to mean for the folks who have gone out on a limb? Personally, I think it’s going to mean an even more unstable world over time.

I hate to sound like a partisan – even though I am – but I think in the big scheme of thigns I think it is more in our nation’s advantage to stand for something principled in a part of the world that only understands force and, I should say, respects strength.

CP: Is there any one solution for the U.S. to have a normal relationship with Iran?

Hermening: The problem is we are not in the cold war nay more. Countries such as France and Germany, and some of the more longstanding alliances, play less of an important role to our national security, and our way of life for that matter, than they once did. After all, 25 years ago and prior to that, most of our international trade and international exchange students came from largely western countries. Our economic interaction occurred mostly with Western nations. That’s because that’s where most of the wealth of the world was located…

Egypt and Pakistan play much more of a role to us today. They are the new France and Germany as an example - economically, politically, culturally perhaps not yet. I don’t think it’s a bad thing for us to have as an objective to spread freedom around the world.