The Command Post - Op-Ed - Moore Jumps the Shark

May 23, 2004

Moore Jumps the Shark

When even the BBC (no great fan of Dubya) says :

But this is a Michael Moore film and, while that does not mean he is wrong, it must be watched with a critical eye.

You know that some people are catching on. From The Australian, by

Jim Nolan, an industrial relations lawyer and veteran ALP member, writes frequently on human rights issues.

(ALP - Australian Labor Party, equivalent of AFL/CIO wing of the US Democrats) :

Moore's "documentary" claims may not be true, but to use John Pilger's formulation explaining the left-wing tabloid Daily Mirror's fabricated pictures of British soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners � "They may not be true, but what they represent is true." If the objective is anti-Americanism at all costs, it's a small price to pay to overlook inconvenient "facts".

Last week, Christopher Hitchens nailed Moore and the European intellectual climate which gave rise to this fawning phenomenon. "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well," Hitchens said, "it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities."

In a world where "representations" trump reality, however, it's no wonder that Moore's "documentary" was awarded the top prize at Cannes yesterday. This is the same mindset that regards the disgraceful treatment of Iraqi prisoners as the moral equivalent of the act of Islamist fanatics in hacking off the head of a non-combatant in Iraq. Moore's indignant "anti-imperialism" over Iraq makes a convenient existential leap right over Saddam's republic of fear and the 200,000 mass graves, just as he silently omitted the Kosovo genocide, so as not to blunt the drama of his "documentary" sequence.
Moore is on record as hailing the already grotesquely misdescribed "resistance" as the equivalent of the minute men � the American revolutionaries � a statement so lacking in seriousness as to border on the unhinged. But don't hold your breath for Moore to be pressed on this.

From Reuters, via the stridently Anti-war, Anti-Bush Sydney Morning Herald :

The jury president, cult film director Quentin Tarantino, insisted the prize was not political.

<sarcasm>Neither was Moore's Oscar for best 'Documentary'</sarcasm>... But at least this time, the enthusiasm was undeniably genuine. An unpresidented(sic) 15-minute standing ovation, no less.

But the critics disagreed, arguing this was a heartfelt attack on the Bush administration that was designed to stir disillusioned Americans into voting in November.

Well ( must resist... must resist... no, I can't stop it..) DUH

Moore's loathing of Bush is palpable in every shot. The President is painted as a politically incompetent buffoon. The influential trade paper Variety called the deftly edited movie "a blatant cinematic 2004 campaign pamphlet" and the Hollywood Reporter agreed, dubbing it "an election year device".

Of course, the SMH also quotes the pean to Moore in the Guardian :

Look at what's happening in the US, where the press is notoriously unenthusiastic about left-wing dissent. My own email always contains a good number of correspondents from the US who complain that pro-abortion or anti-war articles in this paper would not see the light of day in the mainstream press there.
But now America has Michael Moore. He's huge. Huge personally - a great big, hairy doughball of a man. He's huge commercially. He's huge on the web. And he's huge in the scale of his ambition - he is determined to bring down George Bush.

At the Cannes Film Festival we have been treated to Moore doing what he does best, a lumbering rampage. Not for the first time, corporate America has played straight into his hands. Disney has decided not to distribute Moore's new film, Fahrenheit 9/11, a documentary about Bush and the war, despite spending $US6 million ($8.5 million) on it through its Miramax division.
Moore is crying censorship and complaining that Disney's Michael Eisner told his agent that he did not want to anger Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida, because tax breaks worth many millions of dollars were at stake.

There you go. I guess you really can fool some of the people, all of the time. here's a little - er - Moore on the subject, from the Guardian's stablemate, The Observer :

Moore arrived in Cannes by his traditional mode of transport - on a wave of controversy. Disney had announced that it would not distribute his new film, Fahrenheit 9/11, in America, which left the film's producers, Miramax, a division of Disney, looking for a new partner. Moore accused Disney of censoring his film to protect the tax breaks its Disneyworld complex enjoys in Florida, the state controlled by Jeb Bush, brother of the President (Fahrenheit 9/11 details the cronyism and corruption of the Bush regime, as well as its failings in the 'war against terror').
Disney countered that Moore had known for more than a year that it would not handle the film and was only complaining now to publicise his film. Nevertheless, the director once again successfully positioned himself on the moral high ground in a battle against a multinational corporation. He finessed the same manoeuvre with Stupid White Men, his bestselling critique of American capitalism, by claiming that Harper Collins had tried to suppress the book, and that it only agreed to publish him following a protest by librarians.
Moore, the king-sized millionaire, walking testament to American consumption, is a master of making himself appear the little guy. He told reporters that before Disney, Mel Gibson's company, Icon, had also dropped the film, following a phone call from a man in Washington who told Icon that if they continued with the film Gibson would no longer be welcome at the White House. Icon denied the story, but how could they prove that the mysterious Washington caller did not exist?
[...]
Moore is arguably the most ideological and emotive editor since Sergei Eisenstein, the Soviet propagandist who developed a kind of didactic montage.
[...]
In the past, Moore has been accused of twisting chronology and events to suit his agenda. While neither Bowling for Columbine nor Roger and Me can be accused of major factual errors, both trade on a series of misleading implications. For example, in Bowling for Columbine the audience is led to believe that the two teenage killers at Columbine high school may have been inured to violence by the proximity of a local weapons factory. Yet it later emerged that the factory produced nothing more lethal than rockets to launch TV satellites. The film critic Richard Schickel labelled Moore 'the very definition of the unreliable narrator'.

Not forgetting the fact that the two killers didn't go Bowling beforehand... a trivial issue, had it not been for the fact that Moore knew this, and went ahead with the title anyway. Moore by his own admission has never let mere facts get in the way of his portrayal of a Larger Truth.. The article continues:

I ask him why his old friend and longtime collaborator Ben Hamper, a former Flint auto-worker whom he helped become a writer, told the New Yorker magazine, in among a number of otherwise flattering comments, that Moore 'didn't treat people well'.
'Right,' says Moore, rising to the charge, 'and then he sent me a letter saying that he said that while he was drunk. He has a horrible alcohol problem and I don't really want to talk about it,' he says, going straight on to talk about it, 'because I feel bad because he's a friend....
[...]
What I think, after my short time in his company, is that Moore is a man you would not want as an opponent, but also one you'd think twice about calling a friend. Though a talented film-maker and a clever showman, a populist who knows how to play the maverick, he is too often both big-headed and small-minded. In his desire to be seen as the decent man telling truth to power, he is too ready to blame those less powerful than himself for his shortcomings. He was justly revered in the Palais, but out on the street no one had a kind word to say about him

From all accounts, due entirely to Moore's very selective editing, it's the most blatantly political, yet emotionally powerful film since a stylistically similar work, The Eternal Jew. Which also got an enthusiastic reception in France. That unsubtly-edited work 'justified' the removal of Jewry from Europe. This unsubtly-edited one 'justifies' the removal of Bush from the Presidency. No Film Critic has made the comparison in public yet, but it's obvious. It must be in the back of their minds, but they don't say it, as to do so would invite unjust and, frankly, disrespectful comparisons that would trivialise the Holocaust. Moore (for all his faults) is no Nazi, despite his penchant for surrounding himself with what in a thankfully bygone age would be called 'Negro Servants'. But it's undeniable that his techniques and style are straight from Goebbels. UPDATE : And a Hat Tip to reader Reid. From The Scotsman :

"BUSH is an idiot." If I say this about ten thousand times, it can become a bestselling book: if I slip a few jokes in it (and a few rude words) it can be a stand-up comedy routine. With a camera, it can be a blockbuster film.
Just ask Michael Moore, a baseball-cap-wearing comedian who has turned his hand to literature and made Stupid White Men - an anti-Bush polemic - a worldwide bestseller in an era when people were supposedly fed up with politics.

The secret of his success: his books are billed as fact, but contain myths woven together with conspiracy theory. He has discovered a powerful trick being copied by authors hungry for fortune - and, increasingly, by politicians hungry for votes.
[...]
Mr Moore takes up the story: "Nobody could go up in the sky. Except the administration allowed a private Saudi jet to go to five American cities and pick up 20 members of the bin Laden family and get them out of the country. And the FBI was very upset that they didn't get to interrogate them."

This is truly remarkable. But it is also flatly untrue - as proven by the bipartisan 9/11 Committee, which found that the planes with Saudis took off only after airspace reopened and the FBI had interviewed 22 of the 26 suspects. The White House was not involved.

This is, sadly, by no means the only myth masquerading as fact in Moore's bestselling books. There are entire websites devoted to nailing down the parts where he's dressed up gossip as gospel, or concocted entire arguments.
[...]
A while ago, he was challenged by CNN about "glaring inaccuracies" in Stupid White Men. "This is a book of political humour. So, I mean, I don't respond to that sort of stuff, you know ... How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?"

A wonderful caveat. Mr Moore makes his money from people who think the facts he presents are true. His Oscar was for documentary, not fiction. Yet his policy, it seems, is to make 'em laugh - even if that means bending the truth.
Mr Moore is neither venal nor stupid. He has become the world's richest comedian by taking a political theme, sexing it up with a few deliberate distortions and then dressing it all as fact: even if this means misleading his audience.

Posted By Zoe Brain at May 23, 2004 12:33 PM | TrackBack

Comments

Michael Moore said it in Cannes. The Bush administration and their cronies will do everything to discredit his film Fahrenheit 9/11.

This posting from Alan is a typical example. It is done in such an unsubtle way that it is almost laughable.

Nevertheless it will not stop the American people from seeing it.

THEY will make their own mind up without these ridiculously crass references to Goebbels or the antisemitic The Eternal Jew.

Alan you will have to do much better if you want to keep an ounce of credibility.

Michael Moore is a great US patriot. He is bent on telling a truth too many people have interest in suppressing.

His voice will be heard.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 01:37 PM

The real truth here is that Mikey doesn't trust his vision enough to finance the distribution himself, as Mel Gibson did with the "Passion". If he really believes in himself, he would. A typical leftist,IMHO, he wants to protest on someone else's dime.

Posted by: oldgeek at May 23, 2004 02:02 PM

Yep...his voice has been heard alright. If Mr. Moore is such the Patriot, why isn't he quoted by the Democrat leadership? If his points are incredibly flashes of brilliance and insight why isn't Terry McCauliff on the phone with him to attend campaign events? If he has evidence to support some of his more inflamatory claims, why isn't the House leadership calling and pushing for Impeachment hearings?

I believe the answer to all those questions is because the leaders of the Adult Opposition(Daschle, Kennedy, Pelosi, Kerry) know that he is just a loud mouth and has no substance to back up his claims...of course that doesn't stop them from making their own outlandish claims.

I still say, if Kennedy, Pelosi, et al HONESTLY BELIEVE this President knew about 9/11 before it happened, "concocted this war" in Crawford Texas, or ordered the horrible abuse of Abu Ghraib, then lets see the evidence and put this man on trial leading up to Impeachment. Don't think I'll see this though because they, Kennedy and Pelosi, are just blow hards and will do anything they can to get a Dem, any dem, back in the Whitehouse.

Posted by: Wayne Fielder at May 23, 2004 02:09 PM

The responses to this posting are sooooo predictable!

It's so funny.

The truth is that now that he has won the Palme d'Or in Cannes no one can stop his film from being seen by the American public.

WE will make our OWN mind. WE are grown up thank you very much. WE don't need the White House spin doctors, brother Jeb Bush and their cronies to decide for US.

I have not seen the film yet just the preview and I can tell you I can't wait to see it.

All I know is that the people who have seen the film gave Michael Moore a very long standing ovation.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 02:34 PM

Why would the Bush administration have to lift a finger to further discredit a Michael Moore film? The fifteen-minute ovation from the Hollywood jet-set on the Riviera is indictment enough. I wonder what color ribbon they were wearing to signify "Hey, we're all wearing ribbons!"

Put your money where your mouth is, Michael. No, don't stuff dollar bills up Osama's ass. Come out from behind those skirts and actually do something. Pick up a child wrapped in dynamite and fight for the things you believe in!

Posted by: Tingo at May 23, 2004 02:41 PM

It seems so obvious to me that Moore is in this business simply for the money.

Posted by: AngloAmerican at May 23, 2004 02:47 PM

Truth,

Where do you live?

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 23, 2004 03:00 PM

Truth

Are you a Serb or a Muslin fanatic?

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 23, 2004 03:01 PM

Truth,

Only Total Blithering idiots pay any attention to anything coming out of France.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 23, 2004 03:03 PM

I don't think Moore has jumped the shark. Eaten it, perhaps. We'll know when he's jumped anything by the tsunamis.

Posted by: bananas at May 23, 2004 03:09 PM

Truth,

You speak as though the Palm d'Or overcomes what would have been suppression and censorship of Moore's latest hit piece. Have you Truth-fully that little understanding of market economics? Just because the original company wasn't going to pay the money to distribute this film doesn't mean nobody else would. In fact, LOTS of companies will be happy to foot the bill for distribution, since they could get a cut-rate deal on reimbursing Disney for production costs. Disney's financial loss is their gain.

I have to infer that you are from a country in which the state controls all -- otherwise you wouldn't be gloating about this.

The reality is that Michael Moore is the American equivalent of the "Jenin, Jenin" propagandists. Except for the obvious physical differences.

MG

Posted by: MG at May 23, 2004 03:14 PM

Truth, I find it very disturbing that you want everyone to hear Moore's side of the story, and want everyone with a different side of the story to shut up.

What was that about censorship again? How can people make up their own minds without hearing both sides of the story?

Your Truth is subjective and sticks its fingers in its ears going LALALALA after it has made up its mind.

Posted by: Alex Dale at May 23, 2004 03:23 PM

Sneak preview of footage used in Moore's propaganda. Shame on Moore for using CGI to make Bush jape and lark about like a frat-boy.

Posted by: bananas at May 23, 2004 03:41 PM

Moore lies. This was a great review.

Excerpt:

"It’s a work intended to expose links between Bush’s allies and the Saudi royal family and, to be fair to Mr Moore, it concludes on a staggering event. In the days after the 11 September terrorist attacks, President Bush allowed his friends in the Saudi Arabian royal family to flee America when a no-fly ban was firmly in place.
Mr Moore takes up the story: "Nobody could go up in the sky. Except the administration allowed a private Saudi jet to go to five American cities and pick up 20 members of the bin Laden family and get them out of the country. And the FBI was very upset that they didn’t get to interrogate them."

This is truly remarkable. But it is also flatly untrue - as proven by the bipartisan 9/11 Committee, which found that the planes with Saudis took off only after airspace reopened and the FBI had interviewed 22 of the 26 suspects. The White House was not involved. "

Posted by: Reid at May 23, 2004 03:59 PM

I really must apologize to everyone.

The fact is, I have been doing nothing here but trolling, in the hopes of getting a rise out of all of you. Unfortunately, I can no longer continue to spew this sort of silliness with a straight face. Espescially since the last check frome MoveOn.org bounced.

Truth

( Note : This is not from the same IP address block that 'Truth' aka izzietrading@hotmail.com normally uses - AEB )

( The alert will notice that as an Editor, I have the power to not merely delete comments, but to change them. For the record, I've only ever done this to remove content-free obscentity, and to add initialled notes like this one - AEB )

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 04:41 PM

Treasonous. Clearly we should invade France to stop this immenent threat!

Posted by: Loofa at May 23, 2004 05:03 PM

Reid- Nice try. Unfortunately utterly false.
The Saudi's left on Sept. 13 which, since you dont recall, was while US airspace was closed. Bushco officials have refused to answer questions about who authorized it. But its not like your lying. Becouse it depends what the definition of a lie is.

http://www.thehill.com/news/051804/binladen.aspx

Posted by: Loofa at May 23, 2004 05:06 PM

I think Snopes' entry on the Saudi flights after 9-11 does a good job summarizing the info:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

Posted by: tagryn at May 23, 2004 05:21 PM

The Clintons got it: meshing politics with entertainment. Now the Moores and the major media understand also: meshing news and entertainment. Truth (inescapable fact, not the blogger) is the major casualty. I feel like the Brit prime minister, I think it was, who said about WWI, " The lights are going out all over Europe, and we shall not see them lit again in our lifetime."
Documentaries as fiction is a Goebbels-esque method. Western civilization is in deep and protracted trouble. In capitalism and freedom lie the seeds of our own destruction, once responsible thinking is extinguished.

Posted by: TomTom at May 23, 2004 05:32 PM

If Michael Moore'st film Fahrenheit 9/11was so full of lies why is it scaring the shit out of so many neocons?

Why have they tried to stop its distribution?

You are scared that the great American public would see the truth about this administration prior during and after 9/11. In particular the connections between the Bush and the Bin Laden families.

These connections have been well documented in several books. But most of the general public has not read them.

This movie when distributed will be accessible to a much larger public.

The viewers will reach their own conclusions and you are scared that these conclusions might not serve the reelection of little Bush.

That is why this film makes you piss in your pants.

Well don't forget to wear your diapers! This film will be out soon.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 07:09 PM

What would George Washington do to Micheal Moore, if he tried to return to America after promoting Anti-American feelings in France?

Is this the freedom of speech George had in mind?

Posted by: Redneck Texan at May 23, 2004 07:12 PM

Redneck, Michael Moore is not promoting anti-American feelings.

He is promoting anti-Bush feelings. It is not exactly the same. Thank God Bush and his clique are not America. They only represent the dark side of America.

No Redneck the best person to promote anti-American feelings not only in France but throughout the world has been President Bush and his mad policies.

As I have said before he is the least patriotic President America has ever had.

He is working against the interests of America. Four years of damage will take at least one generation to repair. It is time to wake up to that truth.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 07:27 PM

Its gonzo journalism. Cheapshot garbage to make losers feel superior.

Truth, feeling superior doesn't make to so.

Posted by: Limpet at May 23, 2004 07:45 PM

Limpy you are the only one talking about feeling superior.

You have forgotten a simple truth, if you have nothing to say keep your mouth shut.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 08:06 PM

Truth :

If Michael Moore?s film Fahrenheit 9/11was so full of lies why is it scaring the shit out of so many neocons?

If you're so patriotic, why do you get paid by Al Qaeda? (The preceeding is an equally silly sentence, and as completely devoid of veracity as... er... Bowling for Columbine. Still, I'm sure that if I repeated the spurious allegation often enough, and like N.Chomsky, gave fictitious citations of evidence, the mud would stick. But frankly, I'd rather eat my own liver than do such a trick. You and I disagree in our world views, that's all.)

Why have they tried to stop its distribution?

By Mysterious phonecalls from the White House that only Michael Moore can hear? Sorry, that only Michael Moore has heard? Oops, wrong again, that only Michael Moore says his agent has heard (though the agent hasn't confirmed it when questioned)? Seriously, apart from Le Grande Michael's unsupported word, what evidence do we have of this? You'd think that he'd at least be able to come up with a phone bill showing caller ID.
As for the rest.. repeating debunked falsehoods over and over and over again is an effective propaganda technique, and can even win you an Oscar. But in the end, it's boring. Kudos for providing the URL to back up your claims, even if anyone who reads Snopes knows your data is, shall we say, less than complete.

Posted by: Alan E Brain at May 23, 2004 08:33 PM

Oops, the kudos for the URL belong to another commenter. My apologies to Loofa.

Posted by: Alan E Brain at May 23, 2004 08:35 PM

Ah, if only you followed your own advice. If you did, you wouldn't be posting so many falsehoods.

Posted by: Robin Roberts at May 23, 2004 08:37 PM

Truth, Real Americans cant tell the difference. The Anti-European feelings here, that Europe's resisting our actions to defend ourselves has inspired, will not go away if a regime change occurs here.

They have offended the American populace, and are not likely to get off our shit list any time soon.

I am sorry we American's do not pick our leaders based on what they want America to be. They will rue the day.

PS, those stupid Europeans booed Stevie Ray Vaughn, at the Montreux Jazz Festival too. That has given them a permanent seat on my personal shitlist.

Posted by: Redneck Texan at May 23, 2004 08:43 PM

It's fairly simple - by presenting himself as the fat, conspiracy-theory nebbish EveryAmerican Europeans are expecting, Moore is the proxy for all their anti-American hate.

Thus the 15-minute standing O in France isn't so much for Moore's latest fiction offering, but more to signal the culture elites' distaste for rube Americans who never think before they blast everything in sight.

And does anyone really think what French elites want will play in Peoria?

Truth - You, of all people - telling someone to keep their mouth shut unless they have something to say. Sounds like McCarthyism to me :)

Posted by: torpedo_eight at May 23, 2004 08:44 PM

"Why have they tried to stop its distribution?"

Proof, truth, proof. Any?

You ever hear of publicity? We have been through this before. The forest is over by the trees, bud. Look real close.

Posted by: jones at May 23, 2004 08:56 PM

"If Michael Moore�st film Fahrenheit 9/11was so full of lies why is it scaring the shit out of so many neocons?"

Could it be because Republicans took such a beating in the 2002 elections after BFC?

Posted by: jones at May 23, 2004 09:01 PM

Eh I seem to have managed to get the neocons fired up! Good on moi! lol

"...Europe is resisting our actions to defend ourselves..."

It is not only Europe who is resisting your actions. In the US according to the latest Gallup poll little Bush gets only 41% positive rating on his handling of the war and only 44% of Americans think the invasion of Iraq was worth it.

(And that is before they have seen Michael Moore's film. lol)

So you cannot say you are speaking on behalf of America. You represent a minority point of view in America.

I know I will not change your mind and you will not change mine.

Your problem is that the daily news from the war make my perception of the situation the right one.

And beleive it or not I wish it were otherwise. I wish democracy could have been brought to Iraq with the use of bombs.

But in the end the earth is round and not flat.

The election will be decided by the 10 to 15% of undecided voters. Michael Moore's movie will go a long way to open the eyes of some of them.

And America will get a President who will fight terrorism and not fuel it. A President who will respect his allies. A true patriot President.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 09:46 PM

Truth,

Man, are you stupid! Why do you not keep your own mouth shut? You are the only one who constantly demonstrates that your writings are those of a totally warped, totally worthless and totally evil monster. Go hide with the other Demonic excrescences like Moore.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 23, 2004 10:01 PM

Leap doggy style you are cracking me up!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

"Totally evil monster...demonic..."

Yes with horns and a long tail and spitting fire!.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I already told you not to mix alcohol and the bible. It is one or the other and preferably the former.

You will have to attend BA again (Bible Anonymous.)

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 10:15 PM

Oh, democracy is coming to Iraq, whether they like it or not. But thats the good thing about a constitution, it can be amended to fit the needs of a culture.

I might be amongst the minority of Americans, but my views reflect the real ones I talk to everyday.

Yes, Kerry might be our next president. But that wont stop the terrorist from attacking us, just left leaning people like you, wont have a president to blame our defending ourselves on.

The American populace ultimately determines our policies, and we will ALL choose to defend ourselves when attacked.

Left leaning surrender monkeys are a small percentage of our population, but unfortunately single issue, straight ticket voters such as Unions, Minorities, Govt. Employees, Trial Lawyers ( Sorry Leaddog2 ) will bring them to power on their coat tails.

America will continue to swing from right to left, as the need dictates. Right now, security is very important to most Americans, so dont count your chickens, till they hatch.

Posted by: Redneck Texan at May 23, 2004 10:19 PM

I am not counting anything I am wishing for a change of government.

Because like you I want this country to fight terrorism not fuel it. First you have to respect your allies if you want them to come on board.

Then you must have clear targets. The invasion of Iraq was a great mistake. By now we should have caught Bin Laden and his clique.

Instead of what we have created an expensive chaos in Iraq.

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 23, 2004 10:42 PM

The TRUTH is that we confronted a threat and planted the seeds of democracy in Iraq. For the first time ever, there is a real chance for real reform in the Middle East.

The TRUTH is that the events of the last several weeks have been a sideshow detracting from the inexorable movement toward a free and democratic Iraq.

Hey, "Truth", heard anything from Fallujah or Karbala lately? Betcha' don't even remember the names by November.

Posted by: Reid at May 23, 2004 11:03 PM

Anyone done the calculations as to how much TNT could be shoved up Moore's ass? Have to be a few kilo tons uh. Make that megatons. Man that guy could drain the pacific if they dropped one of his turds out of a 747 .

Posted by: Fink at May 23, 2004 11:12 PM

Truth,

You demonstrate TOTAL EVIL on each post.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 24, 2004 12:09 AM

rt: "What would George Washington do to Micheal Moore, if he tried to return to America after promoting Anti-American feelings in France?"

let's let george answer you himself:

"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

"In a free and republican government, you cannot restrain the voice of the multitude."

"The liberality of sentiment toward each other, which marks every political and religious denomination of men in this country, stands unparalleled in the history of nations."

"A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master."

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force."

"Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all."

Posted by: x at May 24, 2004 12:16 AM

leaddog,

You demonstrate TOTAL STUPIDITY on each post.

Posted by: x at May 24, 2004 12:27 AM

A little of topic here but I was just watching a documentary on the wings channel. Its called 'steel rain' and its about the A10 warthog, focused entirely on the original gulf war performance (I think its a documentary from the 90's)...
So they get to the end and theyre interviewing an A10 pilot, I think a squadron commander, about the sudden ending of the first gulf war, and it goes something like this:
Pilot: could we have gotten Saddam? Maybe. But could we have then handled Iraq? No. With that in mind should we have continued the fighting? We certainly could have done more damage, but if thats all we were doing, it certainly wasnt loosing one American life to do so...

Posted by: Loofa at May 24, 2004 01:11 AM

Loofa - so you have found a quote from a pilot with no known foreign policy or general warfighting expertise commenting on his feelings regarding the situation in Iraq as it existed over a decade ago.

I think the phrase "whoopty do" is appropriate in this situation.

Posted by: Reid at May 24, 2004 01:20 AM

"Who's Michael Moore?" would be the best response to this sort of nonsense at this point.

Posted by: Jewels (AKA Julian) at May 24, 2004 02:26 AM

"Who is Michael Moore?"

You can feign not to know who Michael Moore is as you wish . But the truth about 9/11 and little Bush will be known all over the world including the US whether you put your neocon heads in the sand or not!

Truth

Posted by: Truth at May 24, 2004 05:40 AM

It is easy to make a point with copy-paste, no? It is just as easy to make the opposite point with the same technique but I wont bother you with that. The point that has been made on top of this page would stand a lot stronger if the articles didn't came from brittish-australian loyal press.

Michael Moore isn't indoctrinating you, he wants to make a point because some of you don't seem to be able to make there opinion. It doesn't matter if it's al true. Make up your own mind. Either way, what's one more lie...

Posted by: matte at May 24, 2004 08:23 AM

It seems only proper that a Bush-hating film industry should reward a Bush-hating "documentarian" (read fiction theorist). It's also appropriate that Bush-hating bloggers should run out and see the film.

Posted by: popd at May 24, 2004 09:54 AM

Mindless drones? You'll see them in line buying tickets to Moore's film. Perhaps Michael will enlighten us on how he would deal with terrorism.

Posted by: popd at May 24, 2004 10:07 AM

It is interesting how X and Truth revert to name calliing when they are shown to be totally evil idiots.

No, I am NOT name calling. I am stating facts as demonstrated by all of their childish posts.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 24, 2004 11:19 AM

"It is interesting how X and Truth revert to name calliing when they are shown to be totally evil idiots."

You are such a [expletive] hypocrite it isn't even funny!

How about this one:

"Leaddog is the biggest ignorant [obscenity] I've ever read online. No, I am NOT name calling. I am stating facts as demonstrated by all of his ignorant posts."

( x, your post has been edited. May I please ask you to neither go around provoking people, nor responding so predictably when someone provokes you. Ta. - AEB )

Posted by: x at May 24, 2004 12:27 PM

I can see why you guys like a fat, obnoxious slob like Michael Moore. He fits right in with your mentality.

Posted by: popd at May 24, 2004 01:00 PM

Quit feeding the trolls.

( The alert will notice that as an Editor,...record, I�ve only ever done this to remove content-free obscentity, and ... - AEB )

obscentity? Nice freudian slip, AEB.

Posted by: Loren at May 24, 2004 01:58 PM

..2000=neocons
..2002=neocons
..2004=neocons
..2006=neocons
..2008=neocons
..and on and on and on;RIP lib`s ...

Posted by: Rob..NC at May 24, 2004 02:15 PM

Truth saud: "Michael Moore is a great US patriot. He is bent on telling a truth too many people have interest in suppressing."

I'm all for the Libs having someone on their side that is a decent represenative, someone like JFK, Martin Luther etc. But getting behind a jackass like Michael Moore is like blacks getting behind OJ. You guys need to have a better judge of character, seriously...

Posted by: BallsDeep at May 24, 2004 03:16 PM

yeah, Moore is a Patriot. Actually he is about as big as a Patriot anti-missle, and gives off as much hot gas.

Posted by: anymouse at May 24, 2004 04:04 PM

But feeding the trolls is such fun! Like tossing bread on the water and watching the prihanhas turn the surface into a boiling cauldron!!

Long live the trolls!

Posted by: Lord Worfin at May 24, 2004 04:05 PM

Even CNN thinks that Moore getting the top prize was politically motivated. And they are right.

Posted by: popd at May 24, 2004 04:14 PM

..by the looks of misfit more he ate the shark!!

Posted by: Rob..NC at May 24, 2004 04:17 PM

BallsDeep: Martin Luther? I thought he died before the Democrat Party was founded?

Posted by: gus3 at May 24, 2004 05:31 PM

Truth and X are only here to try to stir level headed people up. Their 'ignorance beyond belief' has baffled me from the first days they appeared here. I'm sure that they are not Americans and I will never be convinced different. They are the kind of teenagers that I would personally just like to slap the sh-t out of but until they turn 17, it would be a pretty serious charge against me . I would do 90 days just to break their fu-king noses. They should get off the crack and get jobs.

As things wind down in Iraq and it becomes totally obvious beyond any possible spin, that we are accomplishing what we intended there, you will see the heat turned up by the undermining media, bloggers, and polititians. This is the only thing about this whole WOT that reminds me of Viet Nam. After winning the TET Offensive and basically the war, the media castrated our country and undermined the whole Viet Nam effort, leading the American public to believe we'd lost the war and could never win it. The media offset all the hard work and lives given by our troops. The media has become the enemy of America and the friend to those who would destroy America.

I see the media getting ready to do the final chapter once again.

Posted by: Jeff B at May 24, 2004 05:45 PM

gus3, Martin Luther is just a good person to get behind... Thats all :p

Posted by: BallsDeep at May 24, 2004 05:59 PM

dr. martin luther king was a pretty good guy too.

Posted by: wafflestomper at May 24, 2004 06:45 PM

x,

I have put people like you and Truth behind bars for life. Most of them were murderers, child rapists, etc.

Their sickness was recognized by their juries. Your sickness is recognized all over the Web.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 24, 2004 07:40 PM

leaddog2, Truth, x : Cool It Please.

Truth,
You demonstrate TOTAL EVIL on each post.

and

leaddog,
You demonstrate TOTAL STUPIDITY on each post.

Do not advance the discussion in any meaningful way.

Oh yes, after this post, any further name-calling - even of Michael Moore or George Bush - will just result in your posts being deleted.
It's fine to say 'George Bush is an ignorant lying moron because.......' or 'Michael Moore is a treacherous backstabbing lier because....', but give reasons, arguments, not just bald statements.

I just deleted a post which said, in its entirety, 'nigger-lover'. From the context, this appeared to be an attempt at wit. An attempt that was half-successful. I've just spent several hours of my life dealing with moronic trolls and taggers on other threads, and I just don't have time to be as permissive as I usually am. And if anyone has seen a temper around the place, please return it to me, I've lost mine.

Posted by: Alan E Brain at May 24, 2004 07:45 PM

These are the people who praise and suck up to Michael Moore. (Like x and Truth)

France Rejects God Reference in EU Draft

By CONSTANT BRAND, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - France said Monday it could not accept references to God and Christianity in a European Union (news - web sites) constitution.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 24, 2004 10:01 PM

Just for the record Alan, I dont live in Ft.Worth. But this reflects the society I was raised in. Our president was too.

Not all Rednecks feel this way, but most do.

Regardless, I commend you for requesting his banning. I thought you could add his IP to the blacklist yourself. Do you only have the direct authority to edit your own posts.

Please try to avoid using the term Redneck as a slur :o)

I know I push the envelope around here, but I think I know where the line is.

Posted by: Redneck Texan at May 24, 2004 10:12 PM

Oh, sorry. I got in here by mistake. I thought the headline was:

"Moore Humps the Shark"

Posted by: Max Darkside at May 24, 2004 10:17 PM

But for the record Alan, the trend of whites raping blacks, has been reversed, and accelerated here.

Not a slur, just fact. I dont think racial hatred is as rampant in your neck of the woods, as it is ours. Appreciate the fact that your children are not subjected it. If I ever become your neighbor, that will probably be the reason, international white flight.

Posted by: Redneck Texan at May 24, 2004 10:18 PM

Actions speak louder than words. Striped of political rhetoric, the efforts of the US since 9/11 have been decisive, successful and have lived up to the core ideals of liberalism. The HARD facts are in stark contrast to what 'people' like TRUTH keep saying. He's a member of the 'bitching classes' nothing more.

BTW, I have yet to hear Kerry give ANY alternative to Bush's approach; all I hear is bitching. And I'm not going to follow a guy who only knows how to whine; I want a leader.

Posted by: Eric at May 25, 2004 10:14 AM

Redneck Texan : in answer to your question about 'power to ban', the answer is now I do (as of a few hours ago). I'm just sorry it was needed.

I'd appreciate it if you neither baited nor rose to the bait of others. You see, I find some of your posts interesting and informative. But I can say the same for Truth, and even (rarely) x. More Light, less Heat, please!

Posted by: Alan E Brain at May 25, 2004 11:16 AM

Easier said than done, eh mate. If you met a stranger on the street, and he started talking Sh#t, about your country, do you always turn the other cheek.

Please use your new found authority, with restraint. Heat is a prime reason for the high volume of traffic here. Mindless flaming we can do without though.

Not responding to the bait of others is something we both are going to have a hard time doing, yet only one of us has the power to ban. Just don't ban me for doing something you have done in the past.

Not that I am trying to be combative with you Alan. I have much respect for you, your countrymen, and your opinions. I read your personal blog faithfully, and appreciate your active participation in posting the most topics here.

Keep up the good work.....Sir.

Posted by: Redneck Texan at May 25, 2004 01:52 PM

Eric,

As for Kerry's plan for Iraq, how about http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/.

As for more light, y'all should read http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.clark.html

As for the topic, how many of y'all will actually see the movie? How many of you actually read the spin (blogs) from both sides? It's kinda hard to think for yourselves if you don't get starting material from both sides.

Posted by: James at May 25, 2004 04:58 PM

What's the difference between fat guy Moore and (pre-oxycontin) fat guy Rush?

Simple. Moore plays fast and loose with the truth and Limbaugh tells nothing but the truth. Moore gets French no-names and Limbaugh gets ChainKnee. Swingin' Dick, the Traitor Exterminator.

Posted by: buttonbutton at May 25, 2004 04:59 PM

Apparently Truth and X are incapable of detecting sarcasm when it's used. A pity that.

Posted by: Jewels (AKA Julian) at May 25, 2004 05:22 PM

Jewels,

Understanding sarcasm requires intelligence, you know!

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 25, 2004 07:01 PM

James - I don't plan to see the movie, as I don't want my nine dollars to go to the support of a fat leftist goober.

Posted by: popd at May 25, 2004 09:56 PM

Moore does more than play fast and loose with the truth. He splices disparate pieces of audio and video together from different times, places and contexts to give the appearance of a continuous narrative to push his agenda. See this site for a damning critique of his method in Bowling for Columbine.

Consider Moore's depiction of Charlton Heston speaking at the Denver NRA meeting that took place shortly after the murders (but had actually been scheduled years before and, by law, had to proceed). First, Moore splices in a segment from a meeting in North Carolina a year later (!) in which Heston is seen lofting a rifle into the air and proffering the infamous "cold, dead hands" remark, making it seem like the same event (those of you who have the video, note Heston's inexplicable change of clothes). Then, in Hardy's words: "Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds."

It's just incredible. You have to see it to believe he could be so brazen. Check out Moore's clever edits here.

Moore is a liar and a fat tub of greasy pus and bile. No fair minded person of any political stripe could come to a different conclusion after reading these links.

Posted by: Reid at May 26, 2004 11:20 PM