Very convincing. You also might want to point people who think Christians don't hate people of different beliefs to the "God hates fags" website at http://www.godhatesfags.com

Here is one entry: "Matthew Shepard has been in hell 1,984 days." And to any true Christians reading this-sorry mate, you must be squirming with embarressment.

Yup. Duly Embarrassed and ashamed. However, at least Christians aren't screaming, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" while blowing up innocent men, women, and babies.

"To the pure, all things are pure. To the corrupted, nothing is pure"

Jesse, those punks can call themselves whatever they want. They will have to answer for their arrogance at the end of their lifetimes.

Every faction in the world has thier nuts.

The morphing and blurring of language is critical to the dissemination of disinformation pimped by the RoveBush propaganda covens.

Distract, misdirect, evade, slime, and cloak. The Bush government is disingenuous, deceptive, secretive, and false and has been caught redhanded floating substantless slurrs, and unsubstantiated slime upon "libruls", "demoncrats", the "Clintoons", and now Kerry for years. The RNC is a disinformation, propaganda and demonization machine. We know what to expect from the hobgobblins and crony capitalist war profiteers in the Bush government.

Let's mark the divide clearly lest there be any misunderstanding or conflicting liturgies..

We (reasonable human beings and the larger left) wholeheartedly support hunting capturing or killing every jihadist mass murderer and all those who aid and abet them on the planet, - and actually question and worry about why the Bush government has failed to address the obvious concerns (SA, and Gaza mass murder gangs), bogged down the unchallengeable American military, and actually increased security threats for Americans and the rest of the world now and in the future by the woefully misbotten occupation and pathetically mismanaged and/or manipulative nationbuilding misadventure in Iraq.

A few foriegn spanials, and crony capitalists beholden to the Bush oligarchy accepting political and economic bribes or favortism++, may bow or cow to, and/or parrot the will of the Bush oligarchy, - but most of the worlds leaders, and a vast majority of the people on the planet loathe and/or fear the Bush government and in some ways unfortunately America -
and for good reason.


The malignant spore of jihadist islam is spawned in and nurtured by our petro dollars funnelled through Saudi Arabia, and until the Bush government forcefully redresses his "good friends" in the House of Saud for aiding and abetting all the jihadist mass murder gangs, including al Quaida, and complicit involvment in 9/11 - America (commandeered by the Bush oligarchy) - is not genuinely serious about fighting the nebulous and socalled waronterror.

The Bush government is working to perpetuate war, not end it.

This socalled waronterror is a global effort. America cannot succeed in this conflict alone.

The French and Germans and many of the nations who the Bush government ignorantly insults and revenges for daring to question the necessity and realities of the war and occupation in Iraq - are working hard and succeeding quite well all over the world in hunting, capturing, or killing jihadist mass murderers and all those who aid and abet them. French and German efforts in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Europe are sterling proof.

America has been duped and we are now misdirected and our Mc'attention is deceptively diverted from our mortal enemies and Bush oligarchy oleaginous "good friends" in Saudi Arabia birthing and feeding all the jihadist mass murder gangs, - and toward the bloody costly radically miscalculated, and yet-to-be-accounted-for occupation and nationbuilding misadventure in Iraq.

Why are the Gaza mass murder gangs immune from the nebulous neverending waronterror? Syria is the Walmart of jihadist mass murder gangs, and a black market (especially weapons) mecca.

Several Gaza spores of jihadist mass murderers preach the exact same bile and malignant theology proselytized by bin Laden, -, and were they not preoccupied with, running from, being splattered by, and occasionally mass murdering Israelis', - the psychotic depraved, sexually repressed perverts and jihadist mass murder gangs (Hamas, PFLP, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, al Aqsa, blah blah blah) in the Gaza would direct their unholy venom toward Americans.

What is Bush waiting for - a note from his dad?

It's the deceptive, woefully misguided, radically miscalculated, and poorly planned occupation, though curiously profitable for the the Bush oligarchy nationbuilding diversion, oil piracy and crony capitalist war profiteering in Iraq we resounding reject - not the socalled waronterror.

Tell your puppeteer Rove and the mindless flocks of blueblood truebelievers in the Heritage Foundation worshiping the gospel according to Fox to get that critical fact and marked divide straight.

The waronterror IS a POLICING issue, and also a new kind of war. It is 4th generation asymmetric warfare, and must be defeated - not by oldworld antiquated military technologies, tactics, and strategies, - but by newworld 4th generation warfighing capabilities and assets.

Bush heaps displaced honor, fearfulness, and the spectre of awesome menace on the puny jihadist ragheads, on the nebulous evilone, and WMD, and "days of horror like none we have ever known".

This mass marketing is defeatist. The Bush government is not addressing the real threats to America and is hopelessly misfocused and now stuck in America's Palestine in Iraq.

Burn the jihadist mass murderers from the face of the earth. We're cool with that policy! But forget the occupations, the nationbuilding, the religious crusading, the warmonging, the redefining of America, the profiteering, and the insane delusions of the rightwingidelogue Bush oligarchy Pax Americana neverendingwar and empire agenda.

Many of us here in America, (near 50%) hold these just grievances based on a long and festering list of deceptions, abuses, failures, and negligence (none of which have yet to be fully vetted) - and we have every intention of holding the Bush government accountable for radical breaches of, and infringements on the peoples rights, freedoms, protections, and privaleges.

I got to "blurring" before I knew who was back. How far did any of you have to read until you engaged the mouse wheel?

Tony reminds me of a stereotypical third rate movie villan, especially with the flowery language. I can see him ranting in a smoky lounge with beatnixs.

Less than 2 sentences, Jones.

Ha! He had to go consult Osama,
you know.

Tony the Troll, who can't see the Foresta for the Treesa... I got as far as 'pimping'. That's Tony's favorite occupation after trolling.

I don't post much here, but it dawned on me as I was reading the Foresta polemic that some kid somewhere has written a random phrase generator and named it Tony Foresta. Actually, it is a pretty clever algorithm since it almost sounds like a real person. To bad it is not being used for something other than spam.

oldgeek - Maybe Admin would be willing to shut down Tony Foresta (the Spam Generator) to see how long it takes for the program to react. Sort of a test of the CommPo BS detector...

I only got as far as "RoveBush" before I used the wheel. What do I win?

He certainly is prolific. I'll gve him that. The muscle on my wheel finger got quite a workout.

I got 1 paragraph down and decided to start skimming down to see how long it all was, then i skimmed further....and further, Damn dude, some of us have to get back to work eventually, SUM UP your arguments, if your posting has CHAPTERS then you might want to slim it down a bit, think of the children.

does everyone else have a blackout on their 'tony foresta catch phrase bingo cards'?

He sure uses all usual buzzwords.

Bingo cards! Excellent! Forget pay pal, if the command-post charged 1$ a card, then gave out CP mouse pads to the winner, they could make a fortune!

Tony,

Cutting and pasting from the Guerilla Girls website is not gonna impress anybody.

I will commend you for being honest in your view that the war on terror is a policing issue. I think it is hopelessly naive and disregards history, but at least you took a position, which is more than we can say about Sen. Heinz-Kerry.

I also commend you for recognizing that the Palestinian terrorists are no different than any others. I think a decision has been made to let Israel deal with them unless they take their act on the road, at which point they will join the Taliban and ansar al-Islam on our hit parade. At some point, there will be democracies or something close to them throughout much of the Middle East, and the Palestinians will have to impress the people of the region as a whole that they are worth supporting, rather than just providing a distraction for unelected leaders to use in keeping their people from realizing how crappy their lives are. Something tells me the money and cooperation will dry up, and then they'll have to act like peoples instead of murderous monkeys.

No spambot brothers, I am all too human, and sorry for the long post. Sometimes it just spills out.

That said, until the Bush government redresses the abundant wahabi funding and nurturing flowing out of Saudi Arabia, - the jihadists will continue striking at America and American collaborators. I mentioned before my vacation the total lack of homelandsecurity in our northern corridor rail services and hubs, our our sea ports, our meat, poultry, pharmacuetical, sewage and water industries and distribution centers, - which the Spain bombing tragically highlighted.

The Bush government says they are winning the war, and talks about victories and 75% of al Quaida dead or captured, - but events in the field prove our true enemies are able to strike with devastating effect all over the world, while the Bush government is bogged down seeking a way to slither out of Iraq with honor before bankrupting America.

The Rove/Bush myths are hollow and moot. The occupation and nationbuilding misadventure in Iraq created many more problems than it solved and (although the Bush oligarchy is profiting obscenely) America and the rest of the world is now forced to misdirect attention and enormous resources away from hunting, capturing, or killing jihadist mass murderers and those who aid and abet them, and onto stabilizing Iraq.

We are less secure, and less prosperous today than before the ill-begotten occupation, and the Bush government is accountable.

from "Incontrovertible Truths about Blog Comments":

pg 7.
"any post referring to karl rove is blather of the head-up-the-ass variety"

Thanks for the commendations.

I do not, and would not cut and paste from anyone, and I am not familiar with the Guerilla Girls website.

Please prove your point or recant your slime.

All my writing is mine alone, and original, and I while being framed as a spambot, or a program, and all the namecalling is silly and meaingless, being accused of plagerism is a false and offensive slurr that cannot and will not go unchallenged. Recant your slime.

If the Bush government made a decision "...to let Israel deal with them unless they take their act on the road", then Israel would hunt down and kill all the Gaza mass murderers in a matter of months, - but Bush is fense walker on the Palestinian issue, and reigns in Israeli aggression. Israel does not abide the same rules of engagement as America, and targets and poofs it's enemies with relative impunity, with minimal regard for collateral damage. .

Why is the Bush government not working with Israel and having Sean Hanity condemn the Gaza mass murder gangs with the same partisan vehemence directed at Iraq?

The Bush government works to keep America in a constant state of fear and is perpetuating war, not ending it.

There is no way to negotiate a settlement with any jihadist mass murder gang. They must be deprived of oxygen and hung by the neck until dead, or burnt from the face of the earth. The sad fact that there were no jihadists in Iraq prior to the war is lost on rightwingideologues in the Bush government who failed miserably to prepare or plan for the woefully misguided, radically miscalculated, and/or intentionally cloaked occupation and nationbuilding misadventure in Iraq. Now we all must pay the enormously costly bloody price for the Bush governments grotesque abuse of power.

Tony Where'd you get this? - 'The sad fact that there were no jihadists in Iraq prior to the war.' I'm taking no more threadspace up refuting that sentence of yours. Suffice it to say, you're wrong.

In the 60s the US went to war in Vietnam in the name of the Domino Theory.
If the invasion of the South by the North were allowed to succeed and it fell to the Communists, then one by one its neighbors would also fall until the whole of South-east Asia was afflicted.
The US suffered a humiliating defeat and withdrew in disgrace. Yet despite this, the theory was never translated into fact.

40 years on they are at it again. Only this time in a role reversal. They are the invaders and their objective (if one is to believe the official line) is the imposition of a western-style democracy on a culture totally unsuited to it. Once this aim has been achieved, they avow, Iraq's neighbors will fall in line, one by one like collapsing dominoes, until the Middle East has experienced a total transformation.

They have yet to explain why a policy which was such a failure four decades ago should triumph now, nor why the same forces which rose against their arrogance then shouldn't again marshal to defeat them now.

David

Outstanding comment David, and a well articulated indictment of the rightwingideologue delusion and insanity of the Pax Americanan neverendingwar and empire agenda.

Tony Foresta:

"We are less secure, and less prosperous today"

Less Prosperous?!?! I bought a 3,000 sq. ft house, an SUV and an SVT Cobra Mustang in the last 9 months. Yeah for tax cuts!!!!

I strongly suggest watching the video at this link:
http://members.cox.net/macallan_the/GW/GWBush1_MainPage.html

Everything in that video is proven FACT.

Oh, and that SVT Cobra is one hellova car! First time I drove that supercharged 32 valve 390 HP V8, I got out and said "Hell YES!!"

Dang glad they are making muscle cars again.

David,

Clap, clap, clap...

At last someone with a good command of History and logic. About time! David I applaude you.

I would add that the signs are already there. The resistance is gaining ground. Everyday they have the courage to fight the occupation forces.

How many worms killed so far, I think it's 565.

I'll drink to the resistance and to you David and go back to my crosswords.
CHEERS!

XTERMINATE

gavid A real history buff. Who got us into VN? I think that was a Democrat. Maybe I was reading the wrong history book... You wanna point me in the direction of a good one?

Damned flies.

*
Mr. Danelle looks like a spaniel.
-

Domino effect

Cambodia, Laos?

Damn French surrendered on Vietnam (duh) and we stepped in. The similarities to Iraq are weak, at best. We weren't allowed to win by policy (no bombing of targets in Hanoi, is one stupid one), we were actually fighting the Chinese by proxy with effectively unlimited resources, it was more a battle of states (yes, ideology did play), it was a civil war, imprecise weapons limited our abilities, soldiers were drafted rather than volunteers, blah, blah, blah.

Blah, blah, blah indeed. (Too many excuses)

The truth is The US army was defeated and left its tail between its legs.

I am on David's side on this one. History is repeating itself. When are we going to learn?

Truth

"Blah, blah, blah indeed. (Too many excuses)"

And too many dissimilarities. I like how you pick up on the Blah part, ignoring the rest. Nice discounting. Typical. No substance.

"History is repeating itself. When are we going to learn?"

When are you going to learn that history does repeat itself?

I meant DOES NOT repeat itself, not exactly in the same way, ever. Yes, we must learn from the similarities and recognize the differences.

One major political difference between Vietnam and Iraq:

Vietnam: Started by a Democrat, escalated by another Democrat, exited by a Republican. The process took years.

Iraq: Started and finished by a Republican in weeks. Oh, still going you say? Well, not by the Iraqis, who feel they are better off today than they were one year ago

Iraq job finished ?

Are we watching the same news. Are we inventing the daily toll of US deaths in Iraq.

If this is a finished job, God help us.

Truth

Actually, people who believe this stuff aren't embarrased at all. We're not human to them, that's the message after all.

The people who actually believe that God has made us enemies don't tell us this stuff because they beleive that they're at war (by God's decree) and they understand that disinformation is part of war.

If we don't deserve respect or life, of course we don't deserve the truth either.

The Bush government has been deceptively proclaiming "mission accomplished" since the premature ejaculation on the Lincoln. "What's the difference?" Theendsjustifythemeans, why bother with the truth?

Just keep pimping the same airy meaningless partisan partyline, and hope the people fail to pay attention or ask any questions, or demand accountability.

There were no daily mass murder bombings and attacks by jihadist under Saddam. You succumb to the RoveBush mindwarp Cap'n DOC falsely painting operational connections between al Quaida, al Answar Islam, jihadist islam, 9/11 and Iraq - which are all of course naked lies. There is no evidence proving any of these false claims and links. Powell admitted two months ago, there exist no evidence of any link between al Qauida and Saddam. There were no jihadist (outside of the Northern No Fly Zones attacking Iraqi's or anyone else in Iraq prior to the war. It is you sir, who flat wrong.

All the Bush patriotic platitudes, and hollow promises are meaningless and moot. The hard reality in the field is dicating our course, - and the Bush governments' enormously costly bloody and yet-to-be-accounted-for misadventure in Iraq is nowhere near complete, and there is no end in sight.

Back to the Topic of the Thread:

I have talked to some sane Muslims who have lived in places where the extreme Islamic nuts have, or are trying to obtain, power. Note that these conversations occured before 9/11. The sane Muslims tell me that the nuts also hate Muslims who do not adhere to their crazy ideas and that these nuts frequently kill sane Muslims too. With these conversations in mind, I think that many of us are too generous with the nuts. Even converting everyone to Islam is not enough for them; everyone must convert to their particular idea of Islam.

Off Topic: For some time I have also thought that Tony Foresta is really some kind of random phrase generation program. He reminds me of the Postmodern Generator at Arts and Letters Daily. I think that we should not allow him to take threads way off topic.

Again I am all too human and find this current meme proclaiming I am a robot or some "random phrase generator" both wierd and charming.

Threads are taken off topic by these kinds of senseless aspersions, and silly mis or disdirects by partisan Bush defenders, not by me.

Returning to the thread however, the Bush government thrives on disinformation and propaganda

Point of correction on Vietnam:

Nixon's bombing of the North drove them to the peace talks. All was settled until the anti-war movement, of which Sen. Kerry was part & parcel, convinced congress to cut off support for S. Vietnam. Knowing we wouldn't risk troops where we wouldn't send money, the NVA poured over the border. The spectacle that followed dishonored the 50,000 americans who had perished. We didn't LOSE anything. It was given away.

No Domino theory? Tell that to the "residents" of the killing feilds. Was it 2 million in Cambodia alone?

The only repeat of history here, is the attempt by Sen. Kerry and his friends to de-fund the Iraq war. That would have led to some Vietnam similarities.

Sorry for the deviation. I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Not to take away from any of our Heros in
Iraq, but we have uneducated trolls here
who cannot even do simple math.

There are no valid comparisons between Iraq
and Nam. For one thing, there were 10 times
as many lives lost in Nam. We will never
even come close to that in Iraq unless we
let fools like Tony F, Howard Dean and John
Kerry convince the voters that we should
leave.

Not likely!!! There are a few of us in the country
who know better.

Foresta Alter Ego:

The Bush government has been correctly proclaiming “mission accomplished” in the toppling of Saddam, but Clinton could do nothing but have an premature ejaculation on the Aide “What’s the meaning of "is"?” TheWeeniejustifythemeans, why bother with the truth? "Those ladies were liars."

Just keep pimping the same airy meaningless partisan partyline Mr. Foresta, and hope the people fail to pay attention or do the right thing, or demand and end to evil.

There were no daily mass graves after Saddam. You succumb to the ANSWER mindwarp, Tony properly painting operational connections between al Quaida, al Answar Islam, jihadist islam, 9/11 and Iraq - which are all of course naked truth. There is evidence proving these claims and links. Cheney declared two months ago, the Weekly Standard's evidence of links between al Qauida and Saddam to be 'best source of information'. There were jihadist (outside of the Northern No Fly Zones) attacking Westerners and everyone else in the Middle East prior to the war. It is you sir, who flat wrong.

All the Bush patriotic platitudes, and hopeful promises are meaningful. The hard reality in the field is dicating our course, - and the Bush governments’ enormously effective "go get 'em" adventure in Iraq is near complete, and the end is in sight.

/Foresta Alter Ego

You see Tony, our words are so close, yet so far apart.

Welcome back Tony
I thought that you had given up trying to penetrate the Bush-befuddled. Your posts read like poetry.

I've found that they usually can only deal with one simple idea at a time. That's why Kerry is such a problem. He thinks. Instead of snapping at the Extreme-Conservative-bone-of-the-day, like the Prevaricator-in-Chief.

Bush/Cheney/Rove propaganda, duplicity and outright lying are breathtaking and astounding. (Wafflestomper, anyone thinking that Rove is not in the thick of the deception is either on the payroll or asleep.) What amazes me is that seemingly normal, reasonably intelligent people continue to buy the BuShite. Nothing has been presented on CP to justify Bush's re-election. Except that he's not Kerry or Clinton. And anyone who doesn't blindly support Bush is a troll.

So it's great to see you back! After the whackings you've taken repeatedly, it shows real courage to continue to state your views. I think that there's a good chance that you're doing a public service by letting some of these people beat on you, rather than their wives. (You all are married right? Not living in sin! Certainly not doing that unGodly thing despised by homophobic bigots.)

Of course, this is trollish. Everybody knows that real courage is sending other people's kids to a scam war, strutting and smirking.

Remember folks, the 2,000,000 dead under Pol Pot don't count. The 2,000,000 dead in North Korea don't count. When we get a number of dead souls together than don' t advance our transparent political agenda, we simply look the other way or scream our original proposition louder andrunallthewordstogether until peoplearesickoflistening to us and quit the forum.

That's how we know we've won. The person with the most words wins. Excellent cover for a paucity of ideas.

Tony, how am I doin'?

XTREMIN8:

How many worms killed so far, I think it?s 565.
I?ll drink to the resistance and to you David and go back to my crosswords.

I can understand a Pom (or Pomette) objecting to the war. I can't understand anyone describing the UK, Spanish, Polish, Ukrainian and US troops as "worms": though, nor anyone drinking to the "resistance" in Iraq.
Since you're faking your e-mail addresses in your posts, why not fake the IP address too, instead of leaving it as 81.174.167.187 ( mcstraining.plus.com)?

Blah, blah, blah indeed. (Too many excuses)

The truth is The US army was defeated and left its tail between its legs.

I am on David’s side on this one. History is repeating itself. When are we going to learn?

Truth
**************************************************************
Yes tis truth the US Army WAS defeated, by the Democratic Party.

If we are to take any lesson from Vietnam it should be NO SANCTUARY.

**************************************************************
The sad fact that there were no jihadists in Iraq prior to the war.’
**************************************************************
WOW you mean a regime which sponsored supported gave aid and succor to international terrorism for over a generation SUDDENLY just prior to the Invasion had none of those maggots there?
Tell us yet another lie, we need a good laugh.

In any event they have been pouring in there and tangling with armed troops for a change not unarmed defenseless civilians at least when they go after our forces.

Does look like they don't like the odds when someone shoots back so most of the action even there is against unarmed civilians.

tony, this is Islam, and it's hate. every single word.

muhammad was a murderer, a freak, a baby rapist, you name it. Islam is Satans creed, not anything from god.

Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

I have a million of them Tony, and where did I get them from? your lovely cult!

Bukhari:V1B11N617 “I would order someone to collect firewood and another to lead prayer. Then I would burn the houses of men who did not present themselves at the compulsory prayer and prostration.”
Bukhari:V6B61N550 “The Prophet said, ‘It is a bad thing some of you say, “I have forgotten such-and-such verse of the Qur’an.” For truly, I have been caused by Allah to forget it. So you must keep on reciting the Qur’an because it escapes faster than a runaway camel.’”
Tabari I:299 “Scholars of the nation of our Prophet say, ‘The tree which Allah forbade Adam and his spouse to eat was wheat.’”
Tabari I:321 “When Eve became heavy with her first pregnancy, Satan came to her before she gave birth and said, ‘Eve, what is that in your womb?’ She said, ‘I do not know.’ He asked, ‘Where will it come out from-your nose, your eye, or your ear?’ She replied, ‘I do not know.’”

HO! now that holy scripture from God!

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

It's a stupid cult Tony, can't you see?

and Christians don't hate, the gospels prove it asshole.
You are one retarded ass tony, you know that? You've been buggered up the pooper by a muslim haven't you

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.”
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”

Fat Guy

There you go again, parroting Christian propaganda

Jerry Vines, a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention: "[the prophet Muhammad, the founder of Islam, was] a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives."

And you sign off with a nod to the first post on this thread. Christians don't hate, indeed.

I'll speak for myself Max Darkside, and you speak for yourself and please use your own language, and don't stoop to mimic mine thank you..

Christians don't hate? That's funny Fat Guy considering the venom and slime spewed from you and your ilk, and in light of the prolife terrorists who will happilly kill abortion doctor body guards in the name of the babyjesus, - or the rightwingideologue zealots in the Bush government robbing from poor to feed the super rich and slaughtering thousand of innocent Iraqi's so the Bush oligarchy can pirate Iraqi oil and profiteer in and from occupation and nationbuilding misadventure.

Your hypocrisy is pathetic and revealing.

Keep your false and purtianical malignant mutation of Christianity out of these debates brother. I am well schooled in theology, comparitive religion, mythology, and philosophy, and the kind of bastardized false Christianity proselytized by your camp does not represent the teachings of Jesus the Christ, or any true Christian.

All the major religions are radical failures as religious institutions, and one need only look at the world around you today, or peruse history for countless examples of one or another cult or nonprofit corporation using one or another prophet or bastardized book to slaughter or enslave one or another people. History is painted in the bloodletting of false religions vying for political and economic power, and exploiting and eschewing religion in the process all claiming falsely - godwillsit.

I reject the false fundamentalist christians and zionist freaks, inquistors, crusaders, zealots, vampires and warmongers just as much as I do the jihadist mass murderers. They are all mass murder gangs under different banners.

All the fundamentalist freaks regardless of the flavor are evil incarnate on this earth.

Jesus directed his children to love even our enemies. It is a hard lesson, and maybe unrealizable, - but you cannot morph this truth into your false bastardized mutation of christianity which is full of hate, awash in oceans of blood and responsible for the slaughter of countless innocent human beings today and for centuries past.

There is no religion in this world, so keep your partisan, false, bastardized, malignant mutation of religion to yourself. It has relevance here.

Amen.

Sorry but for clarity, the liine should have read - It has (NO) relevance here.

Ten Thousand Thanks buttonpusher. I was on a short vacation and trust you have stoop up well to the distortions, evasions, deceptions, venom and slime spewed out by the RoveBush propaganda and disinformation covens.

IThe commentary may fall on deaf ears today, but history will mark the divides, and define the blind partisan heroworship and discerning Americans.

Sorry again, it's late in NYC, make that (stood up well)

Tony And what of the Centurion? Shall he be left to the flames of Hell because he war a Uniform?

The Cult of the moment that concerns me is Mohammedanism. I refer to it with that name, because any other name is an attempt to legitimize a belief system that was founded by a MAN. Mohammedanism falls on a rock (Mecca), whereas Christianity was founded UPON a rock, and that Foundation Stone is Jesus Christ.

To whom do you refer when you charge Christians with 'the slaughter of countless innocent human beings today...'? Mohammedanism is responsible as well for atrocities against innocent women and children, and claims anyone as long as they are not believers, as acceptable targets. Is there any Law of God that cannot be broken by the Mohammedan? There is not. Lyin', Cheatin', Stealin', Rapin' and Killin' are ALL acceptable behaviors, as long as they are committed in the name of their god.

Any Christian who commits an act that does not fulfill either of the two great Commandments is neither a Christian in Name or Fact. There is however a Christian Soldier. He or she serves God and Country. To deny the Christian Soldier the opportunity for Eternal Life is to deny your Christianity.

The jihadist are depraved perverted psychotic sexually repressed mass murderers, no argument there. Don't lump all Islam into one single terrorist brood and I will refrain from lumping all Christians in with the rightwingideoglogue purtitanical zealots, prolife terrorists, crusaders, inquisitors, warmongers, and war profiteers in the farright fundamentalist christian covens.

Bush's misson from his false god, and our generals hoisting their false god above the false muslim god and slaughtering and maiming many thousands of innocent Iraqi's so the Bush government can pirate oil, erect a puppet government beholden to the Bush oligarchy and profiteer obscenely in and from the occupation of nationbuilding misadventure in Iraq is one glaring example Cap'n DOC..

I know - "what's the difference?" Theendsjustifythemeans. Who cares about the innocent Iraqi's slaughtered in this unjust unnecessary and deceptive war against the wrong Muslims - Bush is on a mission from god in a battle royal against the evilone- godwillsit - Amen.

The centurion and all human beings are accountable in the end, and there will be a reckoning for every thought and deed, good and bad.

Man's warring feeds the war godz with the blood of the innocent and warriors alike. Man's profiteering feeds the money godz with the false temporal glories of earthly treasure. Man's revenge godz feed on revenge. Man's power godz feed on power. Man's sex godz feed on sex. These human perversions, depravities, tortures, these centuries of wars, these criminal oligarchies, these savage tyrannies, the continuing enslavement of innocents, the suppressing or siliencing of the voice of the people, the slaughtering of innocent women and children in the name of one or another false god are all the nefarious work of man, not godz, - and I repeat sir - there is quite obviously no real religion in this world.

Religion may exist in individual hearts and minds and in small and insignificant ways in marginalized pockets here and there, but the major economic and political powers and the leaders piloting nations and humanity out of the past and into the future are far far removed from religion and any god.

All the true religious leaders and prophets end up nailed on tree's, burnt at the stake, or assissinated by the ruling regimes, or madmen perverted by the ruling regimes.

Call these sad human efforts and our bloody history what you will - but keep you false religion out of it, because humanity has turned it's face from religion and god in the mad and doomed pursuit of material glory and gain, political and economic power, and scacrificing the blood of the innocent for the glory of tyrants.

Tony
You're welcome. It's not that difficult to deal with the onslaught.

Cap'n Doc
You're right on about Mohammedism. But please keep in mind what his mission was--to bring civilization where it was lacking. Looking only from there, I think that his mission was God-influenced. But it's a cult nonetheless-man worship. Based on the way some Christians believe, Christianity is one too.

You already know that history is full of evil done in Jesus' name. Christians continue to do evil, and then get their sins washed once a week. But look no further than CP for evidence of self-proclaimed Christians doing something far different than "love thy neighbor as thyself." When the debate turns to "Islam-bad; Christian-good", something foul is in the air. Underneath your bluster and weird humor, there is a sense of your high regard for others. Not so with other CPers.

There is one major difference between the excesses of those who claim to speak for Christianity and those who claim to speak for Islam.
When an EEEEVILLLL Christian murders, say, an abortion provider he gets locked up. By a justice system that is mainly Christian, When was the last time that the Islamic justice systems hunted down their murderers?

Excellent point Peter. Our justice system is superior, but our religion remains suspect, and the founding fathers were careful and determined to embed structural separation of church and state principles into the foundation of our unique democracy, to prevent, discourage, and prohibit any single group, cult, or socalled religion from gaining any dominance or any concentration of power within the government.

Our law theory may root back to some form of religion, (which is open to debate) - but the practical application of, and canon of law defining America is rooted in a healthy free democracy, and a sound society. This democracy provides that there shall be no religious tests placed upon society, and at the same time affords all citizens the freedom and right to worship whatever religion may suit the individual.

Keep religion in your own heart, your own home, and your own church and out of the government.

Religion as government creates only demarcation, slavery, oppression of the week, favortism toward the ruling regime and elites, division, silencing and/or suppressing of dissent, and neverendingwar.

Uhhhh, Tony... Freedom OF Religion was a long time coming in this Country. Google up the APA...

Jesus Christ was rejected by Mohammed. MOF, he claimed to be an equal, as in Mohammed's claim to be a Prophet. Men are still men. In the course of 2000 years, many atrocities have been committed by MEN.

The idea that a man must throw off the mantle of Faith in order to participate in his government is ludicrous at best. We are social beings, and are bound together in communities by our common need for LAW, and public welfare. Mohammedism rules every facit of the Mohammedans' social life. They are told they must submit. Or DIE. The words of Jesus Christ proclaim that a man is FREE, and to bend the knee(s) is to admit that we must follow Him, for he is the True Light of this world. And by bending the knee and admitting we are not but men, we may LIVE.

A slave? A man. A soldier? A man. A citizen? A man. We are ALL entitled to be FREE. It would behoove you Tony, to return to your studies. Your paint brush does not include me, so don't go heaving me into any 'Camp'. Got it? You have no lock on Comparitive Religious Studies or you wouldn't be making such ridiculous statements.

And for cripes sakes, don't pick at what I've said. I'm standin' on the Rock, and you're still floundering.

Your morphing two different objectives Cap'n DOC.

No one said "a man must throw off the mantle of Faith in order to participate in his government".

In fact your eloquant phrasing of the "mantle of faith" should guide all men as individuals, but religion must be kept out of governemt.

Jesus taught his disciples to turn the other cheek and , and judge not that ye be judged, and whoever among you is withou sin, let him be the first to cast a stone, and to be wary of publican and hypocrits, and false prophets preaching in his name. These hard teaching conflict with our laws and the necessity of society meeting out punishments on criminals, and competing for land, riches and power. It is a hard and mysterious lesson, and one that cannot be bastardized or conformed to meet the will of man and/or tyrant kings.

Nor do I profess to have a lock on anything. I only know that I do not know, and can not judge, and that religion must be removed and separated from government for the freedom you proclaim and we all desire to take root.

Jesus was also rejected by the Sanhedren, and his own beloved apostles who fled like doves in the darkest hour. Only Magdeline and the mother Mary stood with Jesus to the bitter end.

Also the myth of the savior born of the commingling of a god, and a virtuous earthly woman is common among peoples ancient and modern all over the planet.

All the patriarchal religions diminsh the feminine godess. The non-canonical texts paint a much richer tapestry and far deeper mythology, and the mother Mary, (fed herself born of miraculous visit from the arch angel Raphael) was fed by the hand of angels until she was betrothed, in another miracle the Josesph.

Magdeline is the Nazarene's mystical bride, and was his constant companion from the moment she was rescued from the stone throwing philistines.

The point is we all reject Jesus' teaching by failing to honor his name and message.

That said, - of all the worlds religions - none is more false or more malignant than jihadist islam.

Tony No. We do not ALL reject His teaching. Many are called, but few are chosen. He told us to take up our own personal crosses and follow Him. It is of our own choosing if we do not listen to the message and shun the Messenger.

I accept your point that "We do not ALL reject His teaching" Cap'n DOC, - but counter that obviously and most certainly NONE in the Bush government have been "chosen" or have decided by their own volition " to take up our own personal crosses and follow Him." The Bush governments misadventures, deceptiveness, military aggression, brutish hubris, empire ambitions, exploitation of religion and the horrors and the dead of 9/11 for political gain, crony capitalist war profiteering, and robbing from poor and middle class Americans to feed the super rich cronies and cartels in the Bush oligarchy are all quite certainly and obvious repugnant and anethema to the teachings and ultimate message of the Nazarene.

Religion and the godz or prophets individuals honor and follow are indeed individual choices, and cannot be imposed by any government. Imposing religion governmentally or militarily is tyranny and anti-religion.

Keep religion close to your heart (as I am sure you do) but out of our government thank you..

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