As much as I'd like to agree, well, how will that sit with our soldiers who must "terminate with extreme prejudice"? Sometimes getting mad and getting even overlap. As Jim Malone said to Eliot Ness in "The Untouchables": "You wanna know how you do it? Here's how. They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send on of his to the morgue!" When they realize that every act of theirs is returned three, seven, twenty times, and their hatred costs more than it gains, they'll back off.

Those who claim rigid super-legalism as part of their faith, can have their faith used against them. When they believe that an unclean death will send them straight to eternal torment, we can put pig's blood (or at least claim we did) on our bullets and missiles. Watch them run in fear. Is that hatred? Those who claim "sensitivity" would say yes, but it's much more hateful to let oppressed people suffer under the Islamofascists.

Its the death of the thousand cuts that will bleed you to death. One good swipe you can bandage and move on. Israel has been playing that game too long, for some odd reason they still think that if they play ball with 'world opinion' the world (exluding the US) wont hate them. Sadly, its not going to happen. Hatred of Israel around the globe hasnt waned since they began negotiating, if anything it has increased. Now if in 1973 Israel had built that huge wall around the green line and chucked out every non-citizen, we wouldnt be having this discussion. Decisiveness, for good or ill, is less bloody than stalemate. One good hard hammer of force is more merciful than years of doubt. Israel should stop playing the game, they will be hated no matter what they do. It will be better for themselves and the Palestinians to end the silly dance. Finish that wall and seal it off. Establishing a Pal state is not Israel problem, let our Arab friends worry about it since they are so concerned with the Palestinians welfare (my eyes are rolling). Israel cant win playing this game. Even if (big big if) they could get back to pre-uprising and beyond, part of the Pals platform is that Israel will owe Pals the right to work in Israel, and basically be responsible for their states economic well being (as though an economically failed Arab state is some unheard of event). So Pals will have the right to come and go in Israel when they have made it crystal clear they will use violence at every point of contention to get whatever they want. Suicide. End the stalement Israel. Everyones children will thank you.

My thoughts on this whole thing are summed up on my own blog, but I'll say this much here. Hate is not the answer, but you can kill a rabid animal without hating it. And even if you do hate it, killing it is still the answer. "Palestine" has proven that peace is impossible. Co-existance is an illusion. For Israel, they have the choice between killing or being killed. I don't like Israel much. In a perfect world, I'd ignore them. But this isn't a perfect world, and if Israel wants to bulldoze the entirety of the occupied territories and kill everyone who doesn't flee, that sounds like an answer to me.

Hate is not the answer for those who wish to apply it.

It may not be the answer for them. Their hate may however present the opportunity and be the answer for us.

This soft target bombing is a way of telling the world you are ineffectual. Where are the people rising up en masse? It is a grim nuisance. They were beaten conclusively in the field and their government deposed. This lesson has not been lost on the people of Iraq. The ones who seek democracy will like us, the ones who bend to power will fear us and seek to win our support.

The unending hate will alienate the locals who will be quick to identify the foreigners who are the perpetrators of the bombings.

Right now every loon in the Middle East is attempting to go to Iraq to add his contribution to jihad. We don't have to go looking for them, they are migrating like lemmings. They are migrating into the first big turkey shoot of the 21st Century.

It is hard to kill rats that stay between the walls. The best thing is to put out bait where they can be observed....and dispatched.

If they choose to hate, let it precipitate their destruction.

Hate is indeed not the answer.

A good fence, copious patrols, "shoot to kill" orders, and control of borders on the other hand...

The tragedy of all of this goes back to Yitzhak Rabin's choice of who to bring into Gaza to counter the growing influence of Hamas. Natan Sharansky recognized that the Palestinians needed a liberal democrat. Rabin decided that the Palestinians needed a "strong hand" who could keep order. Rabin chose... Yasser Arafat.

That was a miscalculation of historic dimension. But Rabin has already paid for his mistake -- with an assassin's bullet, launched by an Israeli who thought Rabin was giving away too much.

But as it is written in the Torah, and the Prophets, and the Writings in so many places, the sins of the parents penalize the children.

Sad, pointless, and ultimately, so destructive to humanity.

A good fence, copious patrols, "shoot to kill" orders, and control of borders. Two generations, at least.

MG

Rumsfeld has said: PAYMENTS TO SUICIDE BOMBERS' FAMILIES = "HUMAN SACRIFICE"

"Think of it," Rumsfeld said. "Here is an individual who is the head of a country, Iraq, who has proudly, publicly made a decision to go out and actively promote and finance human sacrifice for families that will have their youngsters kill innocent men, women and children. That is an example of what it is we're dealing with," he said. --- Rumsfeld briefing 4/3/02.

It's not just Iraq that was financing human sacrifices, so have the governments of Syria, Iran, and (unofficially) Saudi Arabia as well --- not simply by supporting families of suicide bombers, but by financing their recruiting, mission planning, and equipping. We must demand that these human sacrifices stop, and that these countries stop using the Palestinians as human shields in their war with Israel. It's the exact same thing we're fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The hardest part of this op-ed is the first five sentences.

Heck, I can narrow it down to the first three.

Even if your hate is justified and moral, it isn't useful. An effective, long-term solution will not come from it. All that can be had are the bloody band-aids that have afflicted our civilization for 10,000 years.

> Hate is not the Answer

> There are times when you've got to count to one thousand, take a deep breath, and let the anger go.

And then, on the count of 1001, lovingly and gently blow the motherfuckers to the next world.

This is really simple. Let's not make it too complicated. Hate that which is evil. Love that which is good.

Being afraid of hate for the sake of what hate can do to you is timidity. Hate doesn't warp you if it's properly directed. Go ahead and hate evil. You have my permission.

You only get warped if you think you can control evil. If you're a control freak --- yes do us all a favor and go straight to anger management class.

Hate is not the answer. Nor is it the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love. Hate is the opposite of respect, and when I find myself confronted with video of four-year-olds literally blown apart by a thug who calls himself a "warrior" every time I turn on my television, I find myself hating those "warriors".

I have no answer to cleanly and easily irradicate the menace of the murderous warriors, but it is obvious to me that there is no alternative to their irradication.

A quasi-human that considers a bus load of children and families a legitimate target should be dispatched from the planet by whatever means necessary. The heirarchies that fnance these murderers must be anihilated.

Again, I have no easy answers, but I am a good shot at up to 1,000 meters.

time is the only answer.
Other than that it would have to be something short of jesus walkin hand in hand with moses and mohammed out of ufo.

gijoe,

That wouldn't work, unfortunately, because it would be written off as being staged by the hollywood crowd. You know, like the moon landings, never been there, just some place in Arizona or New Mexico. :-)

Love and hate are hollow words if it comes to the question of justice and equity.
How does it feel to be driven from your very own soil your Family owned for Centuries?
How does it feel to have no Water to grow your crop and see in the next illegal yewish Settlement Swimming pools filled with the water you dare for?
How does it feel to be a Stranger in your own Country because it was taken away from you for no reason?
How do it feel to lose relatives, only because they had thrown a rock at a israeli Soldier.

I have no answers for these questions, but i think it might give a reason why only hate has been left.

Hate is not the answer of course, but both sides have only hate for each other. They are simply incapable to make a lasting peace without pressure from outside.
And i mean hard military and economically pressure on BOTH sides.

Both sides target civilians including Children. Both sides are stubborn, hateful and will never make a lasting peace with eachother.
Both sides have fundamental groups that want to maximize their very own political influence with a wall of hatred and scorn.

This will never end if it won't be stopped from outside.
If you have to shoot down an attacking israeli chopper or if you have to arrest half of the hamas.
Any other will end in a malicious circle of violence.

'an eye for an eye, an teeth for an teeth' until all are eye and teethless or simply dead.

>>How does it feel to be driven from your very own soil your Family owned for Centuries?

If I was a non-Israeli Palestinian I should hate the Arab nations that made my family leave
that soil so they could move in and eradicate the Jews.


>>How does it feel to be a Stranger in your own Country because it was taken away from you for no reason?

If I was a non-Israeli Palestinian I should hate the Arab nations that keep telling me I
lost a country I never had, because those same Arab nations made me leave it before it even
had a chance to be born.

Of course, I am not a non-Israeli Palestinian, and hate isn't the answer, especially not when
Iif I was a non-Israeli Palestinian I would not even be allowed to hate the bastards that are
really responsible for my misery, for fear of finding myself hanging from a lampost at dawn.

Instead, I would be merely a pan-Arabic pawn whose only utility lies in his misery.

Hate is thrown around so frequently that no one knows what it means. For example: what's a "hate" crime? And, how is it that a crime of bigoted harassment is a "hate" crime, but rape and murder are not in most cases?

Indifference: certainly you have to be completely indifferent to someone in order to kill their children. It can cloak the darkest evil. It can be worse than hate. Love and hate are still opposites. I am indifferent to this wall right now. What does that mean juxtaposed against love? Hint: nothing, it can be meaningless to balance love against indifference.

If by "hate" you mean stereotyping an ethnic group and murdering them, an approach that "nobody" plays the apologist for, then certainly this form of blind ethnic hatred is always wrong. Put me on the bandwagon.

If you don’t mind, I’d like to rant a little about Israel now. [rant] If Palestinians were non-violent demonstrators who simply wanted to get to work and live side-by-side with Jews and have a chance to earn a living, then sure the US would be obligated to pressure Israel more than it does already. However, people like "nobody" just don't get it. Islamic Jihad and Hamas don't recognize Israel. They don't recognize Oslo. They aren't fighting over Israelis killing their children, they're killing their own children. They’re spurning peace, and spitting on the US, the Norwegians, the UN, and anyone else who gets in their way. This is not about Palestinian human rights at all. It's about fighting a nuclear power using guerilla proxy fighters, and spilling the blood of innocent people as a military tactic. The only pressure that needs to be applied here is to the sources of arms and funding for this outrageous defilement of a nation for the sake of putrid and disgusting Arab pride.

Do the Palestinians want their Civil War to continue? No they want it to stop. They're sick of it. So are the Israelis. Arafat threw peace away over the "right of return" of people who don't even care about returning. Why does this go on? Bigotry and ethnocentrism? No it’s because there are evil totalitarian bastards with money, minions, and a hotline to hell to help them plot their evil deeds. [/rant]

Hatred is good. But it should be time or event limited.

When the war is won we should slowly give up our hate.

Remember the terms Jap for the Japanese and Nazi for Germans did not start to die out in the public mind until the 60s.

Not that we ought to act on the hate if the enemy surrenders. But it might not be a bad idea to keep it in reserve until we are sure they bear us no ill intent.

Nobody,

Of course the Israelis target "civilians". Their opponents do not wear uniforms. Which makes all the Palestinian "military actions" war crimes. Aside from their intentional targeting of civilians.

Nobody,

As I understand it the leaders of "Palestine" live in palaces while the citizens grovel for scraps.

Of course the Palis deserve swimming pools. Let them do what every one else in the world does. Work for what you want.

The Palis are poor because their government wants them that way. People on the dole are easier to control than peopler with independent sources of income.

I cannot say categorically that hate is good. But, it is good when it causes us to consider how we can pursue justice.

Hating evil makes us relentless in our pursuit of those who deserve no mercy.

Hating evil brings about the changes that make society decent for everyone.

Hating evil causes us to be better protectors of those we love.

Hating evil gives shelter to all that is righteous.

Go read what Steven Den Beste had to say. I'm trying really hard not to give in to the same Berserk rage he feels. I feel it too.

lyn thomas:

< Hate is not the Answer

< There are times when you've got to count to one thousand, take a deep breath, and let the anger go.

And then, on the count of 1001, lovingly and gently blow the motherfuckers to the next world.

Delete lovingly and gently, but if after rational calculation that's the only way out, then yes. Hell, yes.

I need to do something productive that will make a small impact on this evil. What can I do to give strength to the condemnation that must be leveled against these monsters? Any ideas?

CERDIP what i tried to point out is the fact that Palestina was for Centuries an moslemic region. How would Americans feel if Indians claim back all their land, of course with weapons in their hands.

This founding of the Jewish State Israel is the basic event that caused all these hate in the region.
This can't be ignored because this is the reason there will never be a lasting peace.
So any Peace plan has to find a satisfying solution for both sides, wich is almost impossible until Israel accept the Land for Peace formula already written down in the Oslo agreements.

The palestinians have to accept the existence of the State Israel, because an reversal to 1948 boarders would be not only impossible but unfair to the Israelis.
They have of course an right to exist, but they have to learn to make peace with their neighbors or they will be wiped. This is just a matter of time.
The european crusaders, think it was around 1300 had controlled these region for around 70 years until they got wiped from Saladin because they broke peace. You can learn from history, it's not to late, but time run out very fast. Once the arabic Nukes exist it will be too late.
Don't think you can stop the acquiring of atomar weapons to arabic states, only a slowdown is possible, sooner or later they will have them.
Also this is just a matter of time.

The World changes way faster than most people can cope with.
These Iraq War is part of an attempt to control these arabic Countries, so to prevent them from acquiring nukes.
But Pakistan has already nukes, and it is an moslemic Country. So it's already too late.
One Regime change in Islamabad could be the end of Israel.
Only reconciliation with their neighbors can prevent them from this fate.
So i think the Israelies are in far more danger than most people are aware of.

M.Simon. What i've meant is the fact the Israeli Airforce shot with hellfire rockets in residential areas, of course their primary target might be an Hamas activist, but any civilian casualities are part of the attack and accepting to kill several innocents to get one guy is simply unacceptable.
The whole law system is none existent, there are no guyes who catch evil people, there is no charge and no trial. The Mossad say this is a evel guy and the Israeli Army kills him after Mr Sharon nodded.
Tell me is this an democratic system? Looks and smells like an ordinary Dictatorship to me.

I don't say palestinians are the better People, or even are more civilized, both sides have done gruesome warcrimes including targeting of civilians.
The methods are diffrent, but they cause the same hate, destruction and pain.
This will never end if you don't kick both sides until they stop to fight.
But unfortunately the Israeli Administration don't see a reason to stop these slaughtering as long they get these huge support from the USA.
Be it money or weapons, as long they get them they will fight on to secure their great Israel.

> Palestina was for Centuries an moslemic region.

For one thing, when it was ruled by Turkey (that's what you mean by `Moslemic', right?), it wasn't called Palestine. The British called it Palestine when they took it over in WW1.
And just because a particular religion has been dominant in a region for a while, does that mean it must forever remain so?

> How would Americans feel if Indians claim back all their
> land, of course with weapons in their hands.

The Jews didn't come to take back their land with weapons, they came to buy back their land with money donated by other Jews all over the world. The Arabs responded with weapons
.

> This founding of the Jewish State Israel is the basic
> event that caused all these hate in the region.

So what caused the Arabs to massacre the Jews in 1920 and 1929 and the mid-30s and 1946-7? Not to mention the constant low-level attacks since the late 19th century and even earlier. And the Damascus blood libel in 1840. And the persecution in Yemen in the 1880s. And Mashad in the 18th century. Etc, etc, etc. The Arabs have hated the Jews for a long time, and that's why the Jews found it necessary to defend themselves and set up their own state.

In any case, even if there had been peace and harmony iuntil 1948, why should the Arabs object to a Jewish state? Why should that cause them to hate, if they were normal people? Do you hate Italians because Italy is an independent state?


> any Peace plan has to find a satisfying solution for
> both sides, wich is almost impossible until Israel
> accept the Land for Peace formula already written
> down in the Oslo agreements.

Why on earth should they? The `Land for Peace' formula is like the `Money for Peace' formula that the mafia runs. They tell you that you won't have peace until you pay protection money, but the truth is that peace that is paid for is not worth having. There won't be peace until the Arabs accept that what they're doing is wrong, and they stop. The minute the Arabs stop killing and stealing, there will be peace. Israel has never been a threat to them, and they know it very well.


> The palestinians have to accept the existence of the
> State Israel, because an reversal to 1948 boarders
> would be not only impossible but unfair to the Israelis.

So which borders do you think would be possible and fair? If not the post-1948 borders, then you must be talking about the post-1967 borders. That's OK with me! I don't know what other borders you could be talking about. I suspect that you don't either.

> Israeli Airforce shot with hellfire rockets in residential
> areas, of course their primary target might be an
> Hamas activist, but any civilian casualities are part of
> the attack and accepting to kill several innocents to get
> one guy is simply unacceptable.

Unacceptable to whom? It's called collateral damage. Every other country, including the USA and Australia, do it in war, and it's considered perfectly acceptable. According to the Geneva Conventions, the terrorists have no right to hide among civilians, and if they do and the civilians get killed, then it's their fault, not the Israelis'.
How many civilians did the USA blow up when they thought Saddam was in a restaurant? Do you call that unacceptable as well?


> The whole law system is none existent, there are no
> guyes who catch evil people, there is no charge and
> no trial. The Mossad say this is a evel guy and the
> Israeli Army kills him after Mr Sharon nodded.
> Tell me is this an democratic system?

It's called war. That's how war is fought. Arresting these guys would be great, but how do you suggest they do that, without losing soldiers' lives? Uday and Qusay didn't have a trial either, and so what?

Oh, and from your previous post:
> How does it feel to be driven from your very own soil
> your Family owned for Centuries?

To whom has this happened? How many Arab famiies, approximately, have owned land for centuries, and had it taken by force by Israel? Israel has certainly excercised eminent domain in certain cases, compulsorily acquiring people's land (both Jews and Arabs), and paying fair compensation, but it hasn't happened on a wide scale.
First of all, most `Palestinian' Arabs are descended from immigrants who came very recently, in the early 20th century, so they didn't own any land there for `centuries'.
And the `settlements' of which the Arabs complain so much are mostly built on land that had no owner since the Turkish days. Or, in cases like Hevron, the `settlement' that they most complain about, on land owned by Jews, for which Jews have the deeds, and which was stolen by Arabs in 1929.


> How does it feel to have no Water to grow your crop
> and see in the next illegal yewish Settlement Swimming
> pools filled with the water you dare for?

When you have a job and pay taxes, you can pay to have water brough in in trucks, or to build modern pipes and pumps. The Arabs have plenty of water, including swimming pools, but ithey do it all illegaly so they don't have to pay for it, and then they complain.


> How does it feel to be a Stranger in your own Country
> because it was taken away from you for no reason?

Excuse me? Your own country? When was it an Arab country, exactly? And how was it taken away?


> How do it feel to lose relatives, only because they
> had thrown a rock at a israeli Soldier.

Unfortunately far too few Arabs were killed for throwing rocks. Generally the soldiers are only allowed to fire when they get bullets shot at them. But rocks are lethal weapons. People who throw rocks mean to injure or kill the soldiers. So they should be shot deal, but unfortunately they're not. You try getting a few hundred people together and stand on an overpass and throw rocks down at the cars, and see how quickly your local poice force will start shooting.

Nobody: Your argument falls apart in your first paragraph. If my 1/3 acre's original occupants' descendants came to reclaim it, I'd let them have it. But (1) nobody has, yet, and (2) there is no question of the original occupancy.

The modern "Palestinians" took that name, but they are Jordanians and Syrians. There is no such thing as "Palestinian." Besides, it wasn't until the Israelis re-established the land as fertile and productive, that suddenly the "Palestinians" "wanted it back". They didn't want it until someone else took the effort to make it worth having. It's a classic Ayn Rand tenet: "When you see corruption rewarded and honesty a self-sacrifice, then you will know that society is doomed" (Atlas Shrugged, part II, ch. 2).

Give up your moral equivalence argument. It only shows you as an unthinking liberal.

//[Sharon's Government] Looks and smells like an ordinary Dictatorship to me.

This is profound intellectual laziness. The Israelis are fighting a civil war, and the rat-bastard anarchist ringleaders are hiding behind civilians. The Israelis have no local police in Palestinian areas to go and arrest these terrorists. They can't go knocking on their doors and say would you please come down to the station with us? We'd like to question you. Israel has no direct governance of the Palestinians, and in order to eliminate the threat to their society and way of life posed by the rat-bastards they have to fire missiles from aircraft high overhead.

Sharon was democratically elected. And he is doing the will of the Israeli people by fighting against a threat to their daily existence. If these bus bombs were going off in the Netherlands then your lazy opinion would be completely different regarding reprisals.

Honestly. I think you've been drinking way too much of the European anti-semitic "cool-aid."

Nobody

If you were Israeli, your last name would undoubtedly be Ben Zona.

Where do you get your "facts"?
Where do you get your sense of justice?

A few weeks ago, you were figuratively dancing on the graves of American soldiers every time one died in Iraq, while delivering semicoherent posts from a perspective that even a communist would call left wing.

Now, you're blundering around in the Israeli- Palestinian situation with no knowledge of your subject whatsoever, like some ignorant American guy who's flunked his GED exam 11 times and has stumbled upon a rabid pamphlet put out by some militant Islamofascist organization, finding a new purpose in life through the propaganda within.

Methinks you should spend more time at the library and less time at the keyboard.

Seth,

Nobody is just a low-intelligence troll, who gets his jollies stirring shit in broken English. I've always wandered, who has the oldest deed to the disputed area? I guess it depends on who's history you are buying.

It seems to me that the arabs that surround Israel just don't want to live in peace, no matter what. If they don't have a great Satan to jihad against, then they have to find real jobs and be productive citizens. Hell, they have no job skills, other than blowing up kids. Hard to keep that as a career.

And yeah, I have possession of the structure.

E

JimmyTheSaint

:-) Any time now, Ariel Sharon and friends should be giving ignoramuses like Nobody a whole bunch of new stuff to yell about.
All these unskilled young Palestinians, faced with a great demand in their local marketplace, will then have a chance to learn a trade:

Grave Digging

Arafat won't like that very much, it'll mean he has to divert some of the Euro contributions from his terrorism budget to buy shovels.

Yeah that would be great if no palestinians would exist, wouldn't it? Just deny their existence and get rid of them with a genocide.
Quiet and fast. I think Mr Sharon would love this idea if he could get away with unseen.

An buyout of an Country with the goal to found an seperate State on it is nothing else than an declaration of War. Exactly this was the plan, to buy land, flood it with jewish settlers until they are the majority in the region. Then turn it into a seperate jewish State. This is History you only have to read it.
I still wonder when Florida will turn spanish.

You guys have no imagination, no own opinioon and of course very little intelligence because you only repeat the saying of the US Administration and media.
Otherwise you would see the roadmap of Peace is a roadmap from nowhereland. This simply can't work.
These peaceplan has already failed because it set only on eleminating the Hamas as threat.
This won't work, the Hamas is easy replaceable with any other even more violent group.
Since the founding of Israel US Presidents try to find a solution to stop the violence. All have failed because the needed step never had be done.
Israel has been founded on terrorism, this is well known history. Just look back on the bomb blasts against the british forces to make the leave the region. Denying these terroristic background result in not to understanding the current situation in Israel.
These two opponents work with dirty tricks and with a terroristic behaviour. Some members of the first Cabinet of Israel couldn't even visit Britain, because they would have been arrested immediatly as Terrorists.

You guys know nothing about history. Count the number of pendig UN resolutions against Israel, and look how much more have been vetoed by the USA only. Look at the massacres they have done in palestinian camps.
You think Israel is morally better than the Palestinians? You're deadly wrong.
They have more guns, if not they would be already had become extinct.
The reason for this steady fighting is to keep their citizens busy and more easy controllable, just like Bush do with you sheeps.
This fighting can be stopped, but not with killing Hamas leader or Palestinians.
It's needed tolerance, understanding, forgiveness and justice.
Only reconciliation with the Palestinians (They don't exist as Gus3 prooved of course) can save the State Israel from their Terrorism and in a matter of time from obliteration.

A nuclear War become more likely every day in these World.
I really wonder what you big mouthed guys will say if Israel is a radioactive desert. Of course several other Countries will have also get formidable radioactive craters in that process.

As i said you guys have no imagination, and of course you lack any sense for reality.
Your support of the Iraq War prooves this already.
Look at the mess you've created, and it's far from beeing over.
But you're always right, know it better and are simply the one and only superpower on Earth.
Suckers as you are.

Nobody

All the tolerance, understanding, forgiveness and justice in the world have been exhausted by the Israelis in their efforts to deal with the Palestinians like you can deal with most human beings. Even recently, the Israelis have released hundreds of prisoners(read that as terrorists).
The Palestinians have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that whenever they're treated with respect, they take advantage of it to further their terrorism.
They don't want peace, they want to kill Jews and kick the entire Israeli population out of the country. They have admitted this as their goal and proven this so that only a f***ing moron would think anything else. Are you a f***ing moron, Nobody?
Do you think the Jews over there should just lay down and die? That's the only thing the Palestinians want to see happen.

If you're looking for anyone to be reasonable and try to make peace, you'd best talk to the Arabs, as they're the only murderers and terrorists over there.
The world is full of sick people like you who will always take the side of the terrorist, the torturer, the tyrant and the murderers of children, and no matter what anybody says, you'll always stick to your pitiful, misguided POV.

I bet you drool, don't you?

Jimmythesatan

Shall I call the FBI, or will you cease and desist all attempts to "posess the structure"?

Trouble,

You talkin' to me? (lame DeNiro sneer) If you weren't going for humor, my apologies, 'cause I damn near spit coffee all over my keyboard.

Jimmythesatan? Isn't that special? You almost hurt my feelings on that one. Oh, my poor self esteem! I need a hug. Anybody?

Hate is not the answer? I don't know, I hate the shit out of that fat rat bastard that blew up a bus full of kids and innocents, and I don't feel any less the reasonable human being for it. I hate evil. I hate a$$holes that hurt complete strangers, for no other reason than they don't belong to their cult.

You don't like the fact that I see hate as useful when applied against evil? Bite me, or NIC off. Hate as practiced by the islamowankers? Now that I hate.

A question for general debate. Post 1948 and 1967 numbers of Arabs felt obliged to leave the areas they had been living in. Whether it was a valid fear is another matter. Fact is there was something of a Diaspora. These displaced people went to the neigbouring Arabic states. These states could have accepted them into their own society, integrated the "Palestinians" into an oil rich culture.
This did not happen, the Arab Street, pushed these people into refugee camps, fed them a diet of "hate Israel" and only let them out to play with an AK 47 and a one way ticket to committ acts of violence against Israel/ America.
Why didn't the Arabs help the Palestinians?
I am not an apologist for the State of Israel, like most Nations that are threatened , Israel has committed acts of desperation, acts that they would far rather forget.

The culture of hate, did not spring from Israel, it was cultured and nurtured as a deliberate policy of the "Arab Street". What was their motivation?

Like the concept of a democratized Iraq the leaders of neighboring Muslim countries don't envision as a "good" influence on their citizens, I'd imagine they felt the same way about Israel. The Islamic leaders can use "Koranic" scripture as permission to dictate, with force if need be, how their people live, worship and conduct business. That same scripture seems also to impart little value on human life, be it a Muslim's or anyone else's. And their women are eighteenth class citizens.

Judaism ain't structured that way, and also teaches that life is something to be treasured, not snuffed out for little or no reason. Israel is a free country. It's also a democracy, though a friend of mine in the IDF tells me it was rooted originally in its own brand of socialism(the kibbutz thing). The fact that it's a free country is manifest by its transformation of desert into fertile land, which doesn't make its neighboring governments nor the productivity they don't seem to inspire in their working population look all that good.
And Israel treasures its women, gives them respect and profits from their contributions to society.
Could you imagine, given the Arab mentality, what it must have been like getting their asses handed to them via the leadership of Golda Meir?
Without getting into religious differences between the Israelis and their hostile neighbors, I think the above was sufficient reason, from the perspective of Arab leadership, for them to wish Israel didn't exist, at least in its proximity to them.

should nuke the whole mid east and let god sort
them out, and then Korea and anyone else that
doesn't want to play ball. That will fix things
for a while. Better get them All. Here, there and
everywhere. Play or pay.. I'm voting for Saddam
next time. HE knew how to keep people in line.

VF
Got along well with Timothy Leary back in the day, didn't you?

Nobody,

By your definition then all I have to do to commit murder is to surround myself with innocent civilians and fire away. As long as the civilians give me cover then I am immune to any attack no matter what I do.

That is unacceptable.

In fact it doesn't even accord with the Geneva Convention on the rules of war.

Understanding this or any other conflict, requires knowledge of the situation of both sides.

Here's a summary of both side's casualties since the start of the Hudna:
http://www.fair.org/press-releases/relative-calm.html
Here's one about the escalation of the killings by an Israeli journalist:
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery08252003.html

Probably what incites most Palestinians more than the killings is the stress of everyday life under what is, effectively, a continued occupation.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=333231
http://www.counterpunch.org/fredman08262003.html
There ae many stories like this if you look for them.

Greetings
Karl Heinz

Nobody,

You are a little short on your history.

It was Jews moving to Israel before there as a state when it was ruled by the Turks and the Jews bought the land that started the trouble.

Get it? Just Jews living in the land was something the Arabs couldn't handle.

Partition was the RESULT of Arab hate not the cause of it.

Nobody on Iraq,

Say do you suppose the Americans should have left Europe in June of 1945?

It took 5 years to establish full German self government.

Don't you think you are being a little hasty re: Iraq?

The palestinians have only one value, and they know it. They are nothing but cannon fodder, as long as they cooperate in killing their own young people and children they have no future, none.

The palestinians have allowed themselves to be debased beyond all self respect, morality and decency. They are no longer even as valuable as a wild animal. They kill as marauding bands of rabid dogs, killing for the experience of killing. The next time you see photos of them after any act of violence whether on one of their own or a victim, look at their eyes. There is nothing there but inchoatic rage, death and a blackness indicating the loss of soul.

The palestinians have freely given up their souls for the price of being kept above the law of answering for the massive amounts of freewheeling killing.

The palestinians are showing off their cannabilistic tendencies of eating the organs and brains of the dead, slathering themselves with the feces, naughty bits and bloodied tissue of the dead. Over and over they are doing this in the light of the day, not bothering to hide the monsters they are.

Hate can be cleansing, if you look at these creatures as something that needs to be cleansed.
You are looking at a programming that has been going on for over 30 years, so it's now generational. Down to the very smallest child you are looking at future problems. How do you handle this kind of terrible problem?

Arafat is but the henchman obeying his orders to keep these people in a psychological prison of hate, unreasoning and continuous hate. Arafat recieves his salary from places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Arafat needs to be taking a long dirt nap ASAP.

Hate's not the answer? If we don't keep our hate in control, directing it to righteous anger, we will find ourselves facing this situation in many more places globally. Because the enemy sees this is working, paying off for their agenda of terror world wide.

The palestinian people need to be rounded up, and put under supervision by a coalition of forces. The present two generations will never be capable of being trusted or of handling daily civil affairs. Its just not in their vocabulary. It will have to start with the latest generation just now being born for this group to ever have a chance at any peace or prosperity.

A Buddhist Critique of Islam on my blog.

Twist ending. Maybe.

Nobody has the right to take lives of innocents.
Everybody has the right to fight against other who tries to take away their personal belongings or life.

What Isreal needs to do : Stop stealing and taking lives!
What palestine needs to do : Stop taking lives.

Ain't no disgrace to be poor - but might as well be.

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