In context of the strong European rejection of the US invasion of Iraq, compared to the US citizen near-concensus that it is the right thing to do, perhaps the strongest component is not trusting the US to use it's power responsibly. Most US citizens know in their hearts "we are the good guys" whereas you can hardly blame the Europeans for their mistrust.

I had no idea how extreme the unbalance in weaponry until I read the following article by Gregg Easterbrook. No wonder they are worried:
www.nytimes.com/2003/04/27/weekinreview/27EAST.html

"whereas you can hardly blame the Europeans for their mistrust."

Sure I can. They have no rational basis to mistrust AMerican power, which has been used in Europe throughout this century for the sole purpose of keeping Europeans free. Even though it could have done so, America has not used its military presence in Europe to dictate European policy, to exact tribute, or to otherwise act like, well, a European power would.

Given what has happened in the Balkans, if the US were to withdraw from Europe, I see every reason to believe that within a generation Europe would lie subjugated and devastated. It might be the Muslim demographic tide, it might be the Franco-German axis, it might be the Russians, who knows? At this point, I regard that as a bug, not a feature, but much more of this crap from the Euros and I will change my mind.

Again as has been stated elsewhere, these people aren't "wrong" they simply are on the other side.

Huh?

Dig up the graves of the men that died so that these folks would have the freedom to be "on the other side"?

They are wretched, repugnant, ungrateful ... I cannot express my disgust with them enough.

Chuck, something seems to be missing from your post when viewed under Mozilla. Either that, or I'm just having a hard time telling what you're quoting and what you wrote.

Other than the first line, it's all a quote.

I didn't mean to offend you Chuck. What I'm saying is this: you can expend emotion and effort on 'family' that are wrong, trying to convince them of the truth, you shouldn't on enemies. Just protect yourself against them.

billhedrick has just "moved on" and--rightfully--wants to ignore those people, while Chuck is still--rightfully--angry at them. Ingrates are despicable, but fuming at them simply does no good. Willfully ignorant is what those one-worlders are, they haven't learned enough human nature and history to realize the total power that their utopia will have to have over individuals, in order to enforce the peace that sounds so wonderful to them. If they were to read Orwell (and, no chance of that), they would miss his point, and think him a prophet of a wonderful future. This thinking is everywhere, it is the ultimate disconnect, and these two ideas will fight to the death during the 21st century. I believe the utopians will rule or ruin, as they cannot live and let live. So we will have to ruin them--or at least their ideas. It's work, but we must never respond to their ideas with that shrug "whatever"--that's what made them strong to begin with--and always, with a smile, if possible, tell them that you, too, agree that peace and love are good, and hatred and violence are bad, and that this is precisely why they are precisely wrong about precisely everything under the sun.

"I had no idea how extreme the unbalance in weaponry until I read the following article by Gregg Easterbrook. No wonder they are worried:
www.nytimes.com/2003/04/27/weekinreview/27EAST.html"

I think it reflects on the intentions of those in power in Europe: they know what they would do if they had the US' power, and so they can't believe that we won't do the same thing.

It's a measure of their moral collapse, more than anything else...

"I had no idea how extreme the unbalance in weaponry until I read the following article by Gregg Easterbrook. No wonder they are worried:
www.nytimes.com/2003/04/27/weekinreview/27EAST.html"

I think it reflects on the intentions of those in power in Europe: they know what they would do if they had the US' power, and so they can't believe that we won't do the same thing.

It's a measure of their moral collapse, more than anything else...

you should have heard the canucks moan when we put a man on the moon. christ.. they are as bad as the french.

Inre: "Unbalanced weaponry"...

That article misses the point. The primary reason we are in Iraq is because of WMD. Keeping score for a game that has chenged is all the NYT's is doing. Deployment of Anthrax or Sarin does not require state of the art aircraft.

Iinre: "Again as has been stated elsewhere, these people aren't "wrong" they simply are on the other side" is just polluted thinking.

Evil people beget evil regimes. A pedophile is not on the other side of an issue. Pedophilia is wrong.
Gassing the Kurds was wrong. Torture is wrong. Using commercial planes to kill innocent people is wrong.

Moral equivalency, like political correctness will kill freedom loving people if we let it. Moral equivalency is to do nothing.

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Buddy, I really appreciate your comment, but I have to say something a little more. My emotional detachment isn't apathy or resignation. It's simply recognizing that as disgusting and repulsive our enemies are (and they may be of our own household as Jesus prediicted) they are our ENEMIES not our friends. If Tony Blair would say something stupid I would feel differently than I would if jaques chiraq would. Blair's our frined we need to have unanimity with him, chiraq's our enemy, anything he says is just more BS.

Dog,
Thank you for injecting clarity, " 'these people aren't "wrong" they simply are on the other side' is just polluted thinking."..."Moral equivalency, like political correctness will kill freedom loving people if we let it. Moral equivalency is to do nothing."

Yank, you seem to not have read my clarifying posts or understood the "" around the word wrong. I'm not saying that they AREN'T wrong. I'm saying they aren't "erring brethren" they are the enemy. We shouldn't be agahast at what they say as we would if a family member shat upon the floor, we should treat them as the dogs they are and not let them into the house to shit.

Damn, that's really it, billhedrick, that's a huge point...in a world without war, where all conflict is just political, then you judge your country and your leaders, and foreign interested parties, too, by a much more uniform standard-of-credibility. But when another country/group/movement comes after your nation and your way of life and kills your countrymen, then, then, things ought to be different. Then, you quit judging your country and your leaders through the eyes of your enemy. Then, you cut your sides' propaganda some slack. Then you quit buying the story of your enemy. Then you close ranks, and try to win, because if you lose, then you might have to live, eventually, under those other peoples rules. And those who are loudest today criticizing their own country would cry the bitterest tears of all.

What do you think we should do to those enemy protesters? I'm sure they are a small minority trying to attract some attention by their fringe declarations. Who cares? If they are your worst problem you're a lucky person.

The US military is awesome and the US economy is pretty awesome too. But in the long run the strength of our country (the US) is our shared ideals. I am very happy that the US is militarily strong and quite rich. But with 5% of the world population it didn't have to be this way. And if we don't more or less act on our ideals, I think we will see US power dissipate before our eyes during the next generation.

Our strength is in our ideals. Among them Liberty and Justice for all. If you are not behind them, then you are my enemy.

Yup Buddy! By extension too the problem with the blixy chix is not what they said (so much, it was still non-cool) but WHERE they said it (out of the country) Not liking dad is one thing, going next door and bitching about him to non-family is really low.

Two things: The "protesters" took their cues from the leadership of the American Democratic party, who were blinded to the reality of war by the perceived chance to weaken a domestic-politics opponent, and ended up merely strengthening their opposition--and thereby stupidly betrayed their own party's rank-and-file membership, who largely perfectly understand the simple truth of the war paradigm.

And Marc, your message is not getting lost, you've come back to it from different angles in a dozen different posts--and in my humble opinion, you are definitely right, American Triumphalism is a problem...whenever we finally wake up and identify a real enemy--a dangerous enemy--and then fight the political/media war in order to enable us to fight the actual shooting war that actually stops the attacks on us--then we must try to remember things like Lincoln's second inaugeral address, the "malice toward none, and charity for all" speech. Available a few clicks away, on Google--miracle of miracles! Gettysburg Address is a piece of work, too.

Those who fail to study history are doomed to agree with those who rewrite it.

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