Hmm - yes he look like a muslim - ergo he must be a terrorist? Erm - no. Forming an opinion about someone based on what they look like is at best gross generalisation and at worst racism.

Here's an idea - let's let the court judge, based on the evidence of the case, not on the colour of the blokes skin. If he is a terrorist (and that's for the court to decide) then he goes down or else he walks. This is called "The right to fair trial" and it is one of the cornerstones of liberal democracy.

Dictionary watch!!

Judging someone by whether or not they have a beard IS NOT racism.

Right. It's beardism.

Actually Mike looks Cuban in this photo. Hm... Fidel has a beard, Castro has a beard, Hitler had a mustache, Saddam had a mustache... hey we're on to something! oh wait, Lincoln had a beard also... and TR had a mustache...

Dude, politica obscura is an appropriate nick... I mean, what the heck is it that you're saying?

Lemme guess: untrimmed beard ==> devout muslim. So what? I'm not ready to declare all devout Muslims terrorists. If you are, well, say so.

Simon, lewy14.....can you two read...??

this is the caption with the pictures...

" The face of Maher that so worried his neighbors following 9/11 that they called the FBI. It was soon after 9/11 that Maher allegedly became a virtual recluse and began to grow out his beard, allegedly, in sympathy with the suffering of Arabs around the world. "

.........he began acting strangely. He bacame reculsive and sympathetic to arab 'cause'

.......after 9/11, were his neighbors right to be concerned, suspicious....considering his indictment, I guess they were right

.....had nothing to do with his skin color

Ploome: thanks for straightening them out. It's important to illuminate those who would willfully misread in order to mislead. It's long been the happy task of right-thinking Americans to fight the propaganda of the left. The left had a chance to post one of two pictures--rather than giving readers a look at the picture that clearly illustrated the righteous fear of neighbors, they chose the one that best propagandized and distorted the news.

look into the eyes {they are the mirror to the soul} he looks like fish he probably smells like fish....so he must be a duck?. right now in the mindset of america i dont blame his nieghbors....he showed some real wierd tendacys....call it racial profileing if you want...i wouldnt trust a muslum if he was my son right now....and i dont blame anyone in america who feels the same way.....we as americans have been to damn good to all foriegners and it is going to be our downfall....and no i am no racist....IM JUST NOT BLIND.

The latest suicide bomber had the same type of beard.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2990061.stm

The style of beard (fist length, shaved moustache) is demanded by Sharia.
"I couldn't tell you how many times I've mistaken a Muslim brother (outside of the Masjid) for a kaafir on account of his clean-shaven, well oiled, face. How can I say "Assalaamu Alaikum Brother!" when I do not know if he is a Muslim."
http://www.islam.tc/beard/beard.html

"gross generaliZation"
Right.

"Hmm - yes he look like a muslim - ergo he must be a terrorist?"

I don't care if you think I'm racist or whatever. I'm way past caring. And I'm OK with generaliZations (Masters in Statistics) and profiling and any means that makes it easier to figure out who to shoot. That specific image is close enough to guilty for me (well, to moderate my rant somewhat, Hawash deserves a fair trial - but fundamental Islamists DO rate scrutiny - add the beard and the behavior and the history).
Racism? Not really. I don't hate Muslims.
It is realism - radical Islamists are hostile to me, my friends, my country, my countries' friends. They are not willing to live in peace with me and mine. I'm OK with that as long as they understand that my recourse is Jacksonian - kill them and relocate their families.

An example of this is the US shooting armed protesters in Iraq. Including the guys throwing rocks. We don't put up with that kind of BS in a war zone. Some people may think that makes us look bad. Not in my eyes. I just think that some dummie brought a rock to a gunfight.

Wow - our American brethern have finally gone off the deep end! What you are advocating is the judgement of people based on a persons appearance!!

If there is a case to answer (and I'm not saying there isn't) then let him answer it. Basing an opinion of someone on how they look like IS RACISM - at its most basic level.

By some of the arguments above we would round up all the people with beards and... then what? Concentration camps and gas chanbers? Isn't that what we are figting against? Maybe you rednecks are unaware but it was holocaust day this week.

If you begin to philosophise along the lines of Islam=terrorism then you play directly into the hands of Osama Bin-Laden and his clash of civilisations theory. We are not locked in a struggle with Islam but with those who would misrepresent and distort Islam to their own fundamentalist aims.

Another cornerstone of a 'liberal democracy' (you know - like the UK and US) is pluralism. Only we in the UK have to actually practice that virtue - I live in an area where 50% of the population is Muslim. I don't believe that the wholesale detention of eveyone with beards would advance the GWOT - rather it would create more fear and distrust - and ultimately terrorists.

The crucial question would be: does the FBI know about Bob Vila?

I have zero opinion about Mike Hawash, guilty or innocent. I don't know. All I know is that another American citizen is being held incommunicado, indefinitely.

This is the kind of thing that eats away at the Constitution. How long before the government begins using this kind of thing for "domestic terrorists" like say ... suspected drug dealers? Arms dealers?

I think everyone is missing the point of this story. It's not that the man must be a terrorist because he has a beard, or a particular kind of (rather foul looking, IMHO) beard, or even that he (according to rumor) "grew it in sympathy" for his oppressed Arab brothers.

The point is that several sites are posting one version of his photo (i.e., the clean cut American software engineer) in an attempt to misinform people, and that, if they were honest, they'd point out that the photo wasn't exactly, um, current.

Now, I can sympathize with the pro-Hawash groups (be they civil liberties or anti-American) using one photo over the other. I certainly would, if I wanted people to listen to my point. If I wanted to portray him as a terrorist, I'd use only the other photo (or possibly both, to show that there was a concrete change after 9/11). I'm just saying that the point of the article was not to try a man for his facial hair, but to demonstrate that propaganda can be quite subtle.

For myself, I won't judge the man until the evidence is presented, but I certainly get P.O.'s point.

-BF

I can't tell who's serious or not on this topic, but want to go on record as saying it's not only foolish, but immoral to judge "a book by its cover".
Are we to start commending the press when they publish the least flattering picture of suspects?
That's nuts.
Let the facts decide.

Ploome et al,

Did I read the caption... Um, actually, no, I just spouted off because I thought I had something clever to say. Seriously. This is, after all, the internet.

I am not a member of the left, and I disavow Idiotarianism in all forms.

Having cleared that up, I agree that the point about Hawash's supporters showing one photo with one look should be countered. Appeals to predjudice based on appearence are still something I find disagreable - but it works both ways. If the supporters are trying to make him appear cuddly, when in fact he appears anything but, then I think its fair and right to correct that perception.

What I would not want to see is people taking action against others based on their appearence, especially if such action is extrajudicial or not subject to appeal. Obviously this has limits: walking down the streat in full SS regalia will draw suspicion. It may draw the cops. It may draw blood, and, well, that wrong, but hey, sucks to be you and life isn't fair. But are we at that point yet with anyone who appears to be a muslim? I hope not.

So if we look at a still of Nick Nolte from "48 Hours" and compare it to his recent mug shot after he was up for 48 hours, we can't draw any inferences at all?
You can't tell when a woman is thinking "kiss me, you fool!" or "Drop dead, jerk!" by looking at her demeanor? That must be why lefties like those consent forms initialed at each stage of 'romance'. How 'bout those 'inappropriate looking' rules...facial expressions must mean something.
In the context of travelling to Afghanistan after 9-11, that beard is like a gang tattoo. Proof? no. An indicator? yes.
You can't walk down the street without making some judgements based on appearance. And this is murderous espionage in war-time, not a tea party.

Right Wing bigots immitate Onion, news at 11:
http://www.theonion.com/onion3916/syria_harboring.html

Oh my god, the dark man next door is growing a beard! He looks awfully shifty Jeb, call the FBI!

Probably correct, but now that we've had airline pilots refuse to fly passengers because they "looked Middle Eastern" (they were Italians, went the story) or "wore turbans" (they were Sikhs), why should that observation be all that strange?

But what we have here is a Comedy of Errors from some apparent al Qaeda Wannabees.

Seems as how they had no direct connection with ObL or the Taliban at all prior to the war, then felt so het up with Islamic Fervor they went to China in hopes of somehow getting across the border into Afghanistan and joining up with the Taliban and/or al Qaeda.

They didn't make it.

But they conspired to do it, which is the core of the charges.

Were I a Taliban commander or ObL, I'd have taken their money, and put them into harm's way immediately, whereafter they would simply disappear quickly without any apparent effect. Clueless Clowns aren't particularly useful, save as cannon fodder.

They deserve prison time, but their stupidity is far greater than their culpability regardless.

There is a 40 page document on the charges and evidence of Maher Hawash on line. CNN has it on their web too. The evidence is damning.
The Free Mike Hawash Website has not been updated since before his hearing. This Website is
very deceptive. They want citizens money for his Attorney cost. Maher did see his Attorney his first day of detainment and from the beginning has been allowed to have family visits.
If you look at their website you can see how they kept these facts from the public. There is nothing on their website about Maher's court hearing, charges and evidence against him.
I am thinking he is in solitary confinment for his own protection. Maher Hawash's Attorney refused to make any comments!
Do you think Maher Hawash s laughing at all the the Infidel fools who are defending him? Do you think he cheered as the Towers came down....Over 3000 innocent souls who had no voice. No protest. No due process. Absolutely No Mercy

The shifts of Fortune test the reliability of friends.

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