That's a huge, huge number. I hope it's wrong. How absolutely horrible.

Bad joke too

Damn,

Ok, so they are cargo trains meaning a few passengers.

Now what kind of cargo do you think they are carrying that explode massively ?

hmm..this 'goods' trains smells like a lie.

Petrol gas could do it, but that would be alot of petrol, lots of cars full. I dont see standard cargo doing it unless there were 3,000 people litterally crowded around the blocks the train was occupying. If they werent crowded around the train then it was an explosive of some sort, not just vehicle fuel. Also take the casualty count with a heap of salt and any report with ALOT of skepticism, north korea is perhaps the most secretive nation on this earth, they will have a heavy lid on any information that leaks out that doesnt paint them in a picture perfect light. If the NK press reports that Kim Ill himself braved the fires in a red cape and rescued children and old laides from wrecked train cars i wouldnt be suprised. I pity the victims, i despise thier goverment.

In my thinking, liquified petroleum gas, as liquified, does not explode. Boil, burn rapidly, yes. Explode, no. Needs good mixing with oxygen before it will do that, especially if it explodes with such force that debris falls about 12 miles away near China.

There's more to this story.

Tankers full of Chlorine could easily account for the high fatality rate. Given that this comes from N. Korea, I would anticipate the number of dead is greatly underreported. N. Korea's inability to tell the straight truth will probably have some speculating over possible WMD transport.

3000 people. Soldiers ?

Sounds like a possible BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion) from LPG tank cars.

see: http://www.epa.gov/superfund/programs/er/resource/d1_22.htm

there have been several incidents, including IIRC, Kingman AZ.

that could account for the large casualty count, especially in a heavily populated area.

How do you say 'Shot across the Bow' in chinese? Maybe china felt that one last remark in the 'conversations; they had with Kimmy-poo was needed. This is all a tragic accident, of course. No One will ever be able to prove otherwise. But I'll bet Kim doesn't see it that way. You don't keep your position as dictator in a stalinist government by believing in accidents. I expect to see a radical change in direction out of the DPRK soon. Or another explosion. Although the Chinese have a reputation to maintain. Posion works as well as a JDAM and is a lot harder to backtrack.

Ableiter, leaning pretty hard on the old conspiracy theory catagory there. Not saying it couldnt be espionage.....

If Kim had just passed through, there might have been crowds that had been gathered there to "adore" him, that had not dispersed yet. That might be where the 3,000 people came from.

I am presently in South Korea, (Deagu, to be precise) and today at around 2:30 a siren went off apparently throughout the city. I was told that it was probably just a test. By about 5pm (my time) we were hit with a flash thunder/lighting storm. The sky turned charcoal gray for 20 minutes or so. It lasted about an hour. Is this meaningful or am I paranoid?

I hope they get this cleaned up soon. I'd hate to think Kim would have to be the "guest" of the Chinese while this unfortunate incident is fully investigated and the rails are repaired. We all know how dangerous air travel over international waters can be, particularly in this time of heightened crisis.

whoops, my bad (I should read the articles more closely), the glorious leader has safely returned to his grateful nation.

Strangely similar to the Iranian train "accident" recently. Huge explosions and thousands of casualties and both in "axis of evil" countries. Was the train carrying rocket fuel?

Are there operations underway deep behind enemy lines - you know it would be strange if there weren't. I agree that Kim will not think this is any accident. Syria suffered a huge explosion deep within a scud missile manufacturing plant a year or so ago that killed scores of NK technicians.

Acher's weather observation is not so far fetched. I recall an attempt by the US in Vietnam to seed clouds to manipulate weather conditions. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes?

Yes, it is reminiscent of the old Soviet denials. Think Chernobyl. We will never really know all the facts, or perhaps even any of the facts.

but it does seem strange after the big accident in Iran.

But I wonder, if Kim Chee dies, then what?

Anyone able to cobble together some links regarding the Iranian, Syrian, and NK explosions?I'd like to take a contemporary look at all of them.

Mattfenn,

http://nkzone.typepad.com/nkzone/2004/04/update_on_railw.html

Odd. I'm not one to believe in conspiracy, but something tickles me about Iran and NK and train wrecks. I know the NK infrastructure is assumed to be dilapidated, but it is a stalinist country, and as they say, 'the trains run on time.' Is there any history of problems with their railways?

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? Kimmy is a world class nutbag. He makes howard huges and Jacko look like level headed, down to earth people. Except Michael doesn't have any atomic bombs, AFAIK.
So if one of his generals replaces him, then It couldn't be any worse, especially if China helped with the slection process. I think China has come to realize that the USA is their best buddy in the region. While we are certainly a hegmonistc power, we also keep Tiawan and Japan and South Korea from building nukes. Any of those countries could be nuclear armed in months, if Japan and Tiawan aren't already. And Japan has the world's second best space program, now that the Soviets (Russian) are broke. If there was a race to put a man on the moon between China and Japan, Japan would win. The Europeans are a little ahead, but not a lot. more sucessful launches, but a higher failure rate. But when you bottom line it, the web site for the Mars rover is streaming back pictures from an American mission. Kim gone and a sort of united Korea could be a good thing for the chinese. It would let them expand their own hegemony while attacking Tiawan economicly by creation of an economic zone built around a reunited korea. Doubt that it will happen, but it could. Socialist nations tend to not understand economic warfare. So if China thinks Kim dead will advance their plans, Kim is toast. And don't forgetthat China has something like 250,000 troops on their border with the DPRK. Just in case there is a need to restore order in N. Korea. Sort of what the Syrians did in Lebanaon, or, come to think of it , the chinese in Tibet. Can't have hundreds of tibetians running amok and distrubing the yaks, can we? Or is it yetti's? Big hairy whatevers. Got to save them from those dozens of tibetians. After all, that Deli Lama guy is a skinhead and we all know about them!

Now would be a good opportunity to cobble together the six in that region tooffer assistance.

I believe we should be more allies than enemies with China. The Chinese are a fine, mostly level headed, people who have given the world so much. They all know the cultural revolution thing was a ghastly mistake and now they are all keenly interested in being prosperous. They dont breed terrorists and are not really expansionist. I liked them so much I even married one!
I am fearful that a Chinese invasion of NK would result in many Chinese casualties as they are not experienced warriors. I am convinced there is a better way to change the regime there.

Anglo, I agree that an invasion from any side is the worst choice when it comes to NK, but more from a tactical point of view than anything else. In fact if Kimmys train had been just a few hours slower it would have presented the best oportunity for NK's future. As it stands if kim's kids grow up in power while Il is in control well probably see the 'baton' passed once again in that family. Sadly itsnot just kim that is the obstacle (although hes the biggest one) kim is supported by millitary men and officials who are sitting pretty on top of the heap. Hard to seperate a comfortable man and his power.

"...and are not really expansionist."

Tell that to Tibet and Taiwan.

This is Communist China we're talking about here, let's not forget it.

I don't think we can afford to jump to conclusions. First lets send UN weapons inspectors to inspect his ranch before we assume Jacko has no nuclear ambishions.

Sounds like a possible BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion) from LPG tank cars.

I've seen the aftermath of such an explosion first hand. Summer of 1974, Canada, somewhere between Calgary and Vancouver, I think it was, on the CN line.

A great deal of rolling stock was shoved off the line, and was clearly damaged half a mile away. By the time we approached ground zero, there were no more cars. Just the "trucks."

Then THOSE appeared warped and bent. And then - just nothing.

Buildings half a mile a way were turned into matchsticks.

A BLEVE is a nightmare scenario; it's the civilian equivalent of an FAE weapon - with one HELL of a lot more payload. Burning petrol, heating up an LNG tanker or three is one way to make it happen.

The aftermath looked a great deal like photos from the Tunguska strike in Siberia.

I can easily imagine 3000 people dying. If it happened at a train station, not only will they have difficulty finding remains, they may well have difficulty finding remains of the station. And I'm including the foundation.

When a major catastrophy happens the whole world is in the know but this is not the case with N.K, this is a nation ruled by a dictator fueld by hatered to the west ( mainly America) and built on secrecy,Some 3 quarters of the country sit in total darkness during the night and electricity is shared between cities almost on a rota basis, this is not because of a lack of power "on the contrary N.K have the means as well as the knowledge to more than double its whole capacity needs for that region if needs be"nope some would argue the fact that the reason for the blackouts is not because of a power shortage but to prevent the eyes in the sky (satelites) from observing the goings on of the N.k military and projects related to them that is why most movement is done at night. I think there is more than meets the eye with this train incident not because i am a theorist but i live in the real world and accidents on this scale are extremley rare and given the location as well as the timeing and magnitude of this event well it can only open ones mind,

Where are the weapons of mass, here is the crazy notion. Notice how much more dangerous n korea is than our other two conflicts? We had the right connections to facilitate their movement across the border into syria and of course they were tagged, tagged I mean they can be read from satellite ,radio transmitter, homing beacon. Let me go to another part of the idea, notice how the pakistanis only got a hand slap for feeding nuclear info into the 3rd world, the agreement allowed us use of all of their agents throughout the world. By doing this we were able to infiltrate a network of zealots. Moving along, the chemicals made their way to syria and were offered to korea or korea sought them out. These “tagged” weapons along with the “brain trusts” of syria, korea and other perverse zealots were on that train that “crashed” in n korea last week. Allowing this hidden game to move along, we were able to set back n korea’s plans and help take more of their money used on defense, plus that brain trust loss can only be expressed in human tragedy.

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