This would go to show how stupid Al Qaeda is.

Texas has more armed pickup trucks than the majority of third world nations---combined.

Good luck fellas.

The WSJ reported this past week on the tight supply chain for fuel -- small production margins of crude, fully taxed tanker fleet, maxed out refinery capacity, streamlined finish product storage.

The energy companies have cut out their excess capacities in order to lower their average costs, with the result being a (potentially) more variable price of finished product.

So, what happens if a refinery goes up in smoke? Is there sufficient capacity in the others to make up for it? How about a pipeline?

I don't think this is a laughing matter. Our infrastructure is both vulnerable and indefensible. How many rifle bullets are required to drop a high tension line?

Welcome to my nightmare folks.

I am SURE it is Bush's fault, somehow.

MG

I keep worrying about this picure I saw of the huge above ground pipeline bringing water from the Colorado River to LA. If Al-Q blows up a refinery, yeah, prices for oil will go up. If they blow up water coming into LA in 4 or 5 place simultaneously, you're talking millions of thirsty ticked off people. Plus commercial airconditioners require a water source. So, no air conditioning, no water, hot day...can you say riots?

You dont just blow up a oil refinery with a match or a bullet, it would take some work, and the oil containers near the refineries are spread appart 'juuuust' enough so that if one goes it wont ignite the nearest one.

A bombing attack in Texas would just make us madder than we are now.

A gunbattle attack in Texas would probably be met with alot more resistance than the terrorist had planned. Not to mention enthusiasm.

A attack on a refinery would require alot more planning and resources than making a public attack of most other facilities and gathering places (fiesta Texas or Six Flags for instance).

If they are smart theyll hit us where we arent looking. If they are real smart they wont hit us at all to keep us from getting even agrier. Kill 1,000+ Texans in a single terrorist attack and J. Kerry may not make it to the elections without some enraged good ol boy personally dropping him out of the running cough, just my own guessing you understand. Also the backlash against the muslim communities wouldnt be so bad in places like Austin or Houston, but i wouldnt wanna be a muslim in San Antonio or West Texas in the weeks following a major Texas attack.

Texas is alot of things to the world, but the last thing the terrorist should consider us is a 'soft target'. Besides Ol George might just take such an attack personally, hell even Ann Richards is libal to join "kill em all, let that fuc'wit allah sort out his own mess" bandwagon.

i could live without the cowboys stadium. let aq have that one.

Dont worry, Bush has been building secret oil refineres in Afghanistan for 2 years. Thats why we invaded, remember?

I would add to the above comments about Texas...nothing!

We have lived here for 8 years now...Great place...great people...we might stay forever...

But this is not a state I would want to attack...Texans in general have a clear picture of personal responsibility and morality...old fashioned and proud of it.

For example, someone trying to sue a gun manufacturer for a handgun death would get laughed out of town.

And a clear picture of the right to preemptive (but justified) self-protection.

Not long ago a motorist in Dallas was rear-ended by one of those bump-and-hijack artists. Instead the motorist shot the perp dead before he could drive away. Judge ruled in motorist's favor. Local media (yes, even here) tried to make something out of it but no dice...people simply said, What a fool Mr. Criminal was, his Momma and Daddy should have taught him better.

Someone once described Texas as a Southern state masquerading as a Western state...not a good combination if righteous retribution and comfort with sidearms are qualities that might interfere with your jihad.

ronin, as a Texan I take strong exception to your implications about Texans murdering John Kerry and/or Arab-Americans in the event of a terrorist attack. And I especially resent your slur against residents of San Antonio and West Texas. Texans, like most Americans, can distinguish between violent perpertrators of terror and political adversaries or members of a minority faith.

Absent some strong evidence, please refrain from making fanciful predictions/threats which have no basis in reality.

BTW, there's a strong tradition in Texas that says no matter where you're from or what your parents did, you get the benefit of the doubt to establish your own credentials and character now that you're in Texas--by what you choose to say and do. All of us don't always live by that exalted standard, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to get established and accepted in Texas by working hard and abiding by the law.

Your comments imply some hypothetical, future unfavorable outcomes toward muslim Texans in the event of a terror attack. I respectfully submit that you are woefully mistaken; for any Texan who would hold the innocent responsible for someone else's evil acts, there are 100 or 1000 who would defend our neighbors' right to be here and to worship and live in peace.

The reason AQ has NOT attacked us is they know what will happen if they do. There will be a hue and cry across the US to cut off all Islamist heads and smear them with pigs blood. If something happens I would not want to be Islamic within the confines of the US. A couple of B-2 and B1-Bs with cruise nuclear missiles would make short work of Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and selected parts of Iraq. If you go to war you might as well win the damn thing.

The reason AQ has NOT attacked us is they know what will happen if they do. There will be a hue and cry across the US to cut off all Islamist heads and smear them with pigs blood. If something happens I would not want to be Islamic within the confines of the US. A couple of B-2 and B1-Bs with cruise nuclear missiles would make short work of Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and selected parts of Iraq. If you go to war you might as well win the damn thing.

=: Desertlady

Those 100's or 1000's may live in Austin, and that 1% or even .1% may live in Vyder, but that minority really doesnt care what the rest of us think. Anybody as proud as you must be a local so you must know theres nothing half assed in Texas. As has been proven in Waco, when we get a nut, its a coconut. You may have your faith in everyone keeping a cool head, but ill be tellin my neighbor to come hide out in my house for a few days. Then again im a pessimist.

Desertlady

Now we know why you live in the desert.

I'm a Texan having to live in Europe at the moment. Why don't you come over here and see the diabolical result of the type of outlook you hold. Don't try infecting Texas with that crap. Common sense prevails, liberalism kills.

By the way, could the FBI have given a more broad and obvious warning to a more obvious target? Is this what they call doing their job?

Great national security, jackasses.

I'm sorry I'm late. I got here as soon as I could.

I don't know what the hell DesertLady is talking about, but if the Terrorist attack Texas, there will be many convenience stores looking for new owners. Just like after 9-11.

Johnnymozart, Ronin, & raoul have an accurate assessment of the prevailing attitude down here.

But unfortunately, the terrorist will not be around to "light Up". We dont like to just fire up in the air, like the stupid muslims, we like the sound of brain tissue, exploding from the back of Muslims heads. Thats why it is so important, that we take the battle to the Muslim World. And keep it there.

In looking for a Texas type solution to the Terrorist problem, it occurred to me, that we should set up hunting leases, in the middle east. Everyone in Texas, is a trained sniper. We could set up a date & fig automatic feeder, and pick em off as they grazed.

It would really add to my mount collection. And look nice in my office.

You have one of those "Texas Terrorist Hunting Liscense" stickers on the back of your truck dont you?

AQ obviously didnt get the memo.

Dont mess with Texas.

I sometimes wish there was videotape of the boys at the Alamo, or JB Hood leading a thousand screaming Texans up and over an untakeable hill at Frasier's Farm. Might end this war right then.

No Ronin, I poach........with a spot light.

OK--let me try to clarify my remarks. Texans aren't dhimmis. Any terrorist attack here would be met with immediate, enthusiastic and impressive firepower by the citizens and law enforcement. That's a Good Thing.

HOWEVER, I believe Texans will neither commit nor tolerate attacks against muslims who abide by the law of our land, just because of their religion. I hope.

I believe Harlot misunderstood me. The European model--confine muslim immigrants to second-class status and don't assist or encourage them to assimilate or be active participants in society--is a recipe for disaster. Fortunately, we in America have a robust model for bringing new peoples into our society, and it includes respecting and honoring each individual on his or her own character and actions.

Heck, we even accept French immigrants!

Well, thats a little better hun. I wouldn't bet to much money on that "Texans will not Commit attacks" part though.

Ah yes -- the Warning of the Week.

Once again, we have the orchestration of American jitters, brought to you by the Department of Homeland Security, whose existence is justified by ensuring that folks remain insecure wherever they are, and whatever they are doing.

Fact of the matter is, this is an empty warning. We have no specific "intel" (a word quickly becoming content-free in the current milieu) about a potential attack on any oil refinery. Every time some twit elsewhere suggests that Some target Somewhere might be hit Sometime, we issue another warning. If you don't see something Real happening on the ground, then what you are seeing is PR and not an actual Warning.

Look to actual on-the-ground preparations, and note that none are being taken to any specific degree. No security forces are being deployed, no special attention is being given, other than suggesting to refinery employees that they be Diligent.

That discussion has been conducted long since. This is merely anothe repetition in the series.

For the past year, this sort of press release has been an ongoing practice. Months ago, it was harbors. But essentially nothing new has been done since that. There were tunnels, sports stadiums, bridges and a list of others, here and there, now and then. Last week, it was trains. This week, it's oil refineries. As the need to issue a New Press Release weekly comes around, eventually it will be Starbucks and bakeries that are "potential terrorist targets."

The DoHS toys with the Crying Wolf problem here.

There's clearly less here than meets the eye.

Bush didnt take the 911 warning seriously enough.
Bush creates all warning since 911 to scare people.

Thats a fair and objective standard. In weirdo tinfoil hat land.

Sorry, Mark -- Dubya isn't creating any warning at all. It's the DoHS. Dubya is not connected directly to such stuff that anyone can demonstrate. Not did I say otherwise. You defend what hasn't been attacked.

All you need do is revisit the past similar "warnings" that have come out on a regular basis, according to the administration's needs in the current press coverage and news cycle. Nothing weird about it -- it's what's actually going on. Easy enough to see.

You, meanwhile, might do well to revisit the archives on your own, and re-read your own previous silliness and Sky Is Falling discussions just prior to and at the initiation of the Iraq Invasion.

It makes for some pretty entertaining reading. You were vehement then, and you have remained vehement since. Whichever way the administration and wingnut winds have blown, you've consistently followed right along. Predictably and faithfully.

But you've been so clearly and demonstrably Wrong so often that apparently you now choose to defend the indefensible -- your own previous stances across the board.

Apparently tinfoil hats serve to keep out Actual Knowledge and New Facts, and reinforce previous ignorance by reflecting it inwards and heterodyning it on previous nonsense.

It's right there, on the record.

Sorry -- gotta go. Client is waiting, and I'm busy for the rest of the day. But at least this gives you something to chew on for a while. And this would be just No Fun At All if everyone simply agreed with you, now would it?

Y'all have a Real Nice Day now, y'hear!

I agree Mark ( Northern Virginia? ) Don, wants to bitch about the warnings, then when they attack one of the millions of possible targets, bitch again about no proper warnings.

You know Mark, If Kerry wins, our roles here will be much more simple, just bitch about he does and doesnt do. We will just have to live with more attacks, but at least Don, and many others here will be happy.

Actually they are doing it correctly, they are issuing a warning but havent elevated the "global warning level", either way they are covered. Don is correct on one account in that it is not W's job to give us warnings, thats the job of Mr. Ridge. This free's up W's time to restrain homosexual unions and win a election.

You do have to wonder what triggers an alert however, and if the terrorist are either screwing with the rumors to keep us paranoid, or if its the DoHS smiling at every murmor on the internet and posting a blurb about it on CNN to let everybody know that they are doing something at least. Kinda like the useless apps i keep running on the server that i tell my boss they allow me to monitor network activity (I.E command-post.org to monitor if the internet connection is still up).

Im sorry Don, am I wrong in remembering a couple of planes smashing into the WTC a couple years ago? Are you suggesting that cant or wont happen again? WHat are you basing that on? And I really dont think you want to play the 'whos been right, whos been wrong game' either. Go ask the folks in Madrid if there is a terrorist threat alive in the world. That could have been Atlanta.
Btw, can I assume that defying all odds, if an oil refinery did get blown up in Texas, you'd bow your head solemnly to GW Bush and say its not his fault? Or would you be all over him like a cheap suit for not doing enough to prevent it. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

...and if another terrorist attack Happened, and there was No Warning for Don to Mock, what would Don's reaction be, I wonder?

He'd Probably use it as Another Excuse to Pontificate on How Wise and Noble he is, compared to those Icky Awful people who Disagree With Him who are all Blind Thralls of the awful Bush Administration. All with Semi-Randomly capitalised Words that Make His Postings look Oh So Keen and Insightful. (Must Admit that it is Addictive. Must Stop Doing This.)

Though I'm shocked: he made it through the Entire Thread without making a Derisive Remark about Gun Fondlers™ especially when some posters mentioned probable Reactions towards some terrorists by Texans with Guns. Argh, Did It Again.

Hey now, My president IS Chuck Heston.

who performs at the benefit concert?

Toby Keith, with additional verses for "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue"

Al-Q would be idiotic to attack again on US soil this year. It would guarantee Bush's re-election. It was also probably mean a step or two up against them.

I'm not saying they're not idiotic, though. They're nutters.

I think after the election, and if Bush wins. AQ is in deep shit. Bush will swerve off the middle of the road and "make History". Kim in NK better sit down, and shut up.

You know the most damaging target the terrorist could strike in America is: Ralph Nader

//If you don’t see something Real happening on the ground, then what you are seeing is PR and not an actual Warning.//

Well Don,

I don’t know where you live but I live very near that refinery area on the Texas Gulf Coast. And I can tell you that you might not see anything real happening on the ground but we do, every day we see it. Actually, Refinery Row STAYS on high alert. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.

oh come now. It's just peacefull mulims practicing their culture. Leave them be. they are just playing nicely.

I have worked in the oil industry for over 21 years, and I can tell you that unless each and every employee is monitored 24/7 when in the plants there is no way you can physically stop a unit from being utilized as a bomb. You don't need any explosives to make it so. All you need is the determination and knowledge of what pieces of equipment to use as the trigger. Now how are you going to blame that on Bush? By hiring personal guards for each employee, follow them around armed?
Just like the size of this state alone, you cannot montor every inch to stop terrorism. That's quite provable by just witnessing the amount of crime that happens daily. You going to blame Bush because Texas is so big?
The oil industry has implemented many fail safes, but even so it is not 100% secure from being compromised And you can't see the security that's been installed from outside.
It's easy for us armchair warriors to nitpick the folks who are involved in collecting and interpreting the information that is flowing in from all over the world.
Maybe some of you should volunteer to help out, maybe if you're a linguist.
As to Texas being hit, don't bet your sweet bippy on how much restraint would be in effect by the populace. It won't be nice, tidy or polite.

Please!

1) Keep your hands off the Sikhs, who are not Muslim in any way (though they do wear turbans), and

2) Keep your hands off the peaceable Muslims. Hearts and minds. Remember?

Otherwise, carry on.

You might want to tell them they should dress like normal Americans, its hard to tell the difference through a 6x scope.

Historically, most immigrants have adopted American Culture by the second generation, not fight school board dress codes, so they can practice a foriegn culture here :o)

Otherwise, carry on.

RT They have been expressly forbidden from engaging in assimilation. That's okay to a point. I can't see throwin' out the babe with the bathwater, however. My neighbor is still my neighbor until he tells me I can't cook a pig in my backyard.

I love you Cap't. And your brotherly love spin on all subjects, but all these Immigrants aint emigrating to Helena. They are coming to where the money is. There are several areas of Dallas where you can drive a long way, without seeing a sign in English. And our public schools dont move on to the next subject, until the lowest common denominator is ready.

I am in a self-imposed exile from going into depth, on social issues, here at the command post. But a change in geography for you, might equate to a change in perspective.

Dont worry RT, least in Austin all the important signs are still in english :) As for being slowly assimulated by the Mexican immgirants...ehh ive come to terms with it, ill take fajita's over french quisine any day of the week.

*"My neighbor is still my neighbor until he tells me I can’t cook a pig in my backyard."
-Posted by: Cap'n DOC at March 28, 2004 01:22 PM*

Beutifull and simply put.

Yea Ronin, I can read the signs in Spanish. That dont bother me too much, Its the other ones ( Vietnamese, Korean, Arabic ) That make me wonder what they are selling there. :o)

Oil refineries could be a really disasterous target for a ship load of fertilizer. See:

http://sdsd.essortment.com/texascityexplo_rkvi.htm

It happened ?

It happened...they warned us. Good job, I guess...it still happened..

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