What the Isralies have done by killing a wheel chair bound man is amazing. He was a certainly a political target but not much of a military target.

Israel obviously have no desire of honouring their part of the raodmap....indeed for them there is no (and never has been) a roadmap worthy of signing... i.e. they are not interested in peace as they want to keep the occupied lands for themselves.

The worst thing about this is that it puts us (the US) in the firing line. Hamas may well bring the battle to teh US mainland ....and we certainly don't have a wall around our country.

We need to detach ourselves away from the Israelis, if a sigle US (Washington in particular) citizen dies from this action then it's one too many. Hamas & Israel need to sort it out themselves, leave us out of it...one of the best ways of doing this is to stop funding Israel, instead let's send that money on our deservind causes.

Now get out there and arrest someone!!!!!

Nobody......

..shut the hell up.

JM,

Why, isn't my POV as valid as yours!!!!

Nobody,

Your point of view, as abhorrent as it is, has one major result. You have blood on your hands and soul! Your type of comments (and those of people who follow Howard the Maniac) are DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for Islamofascists' beliefs that they can kill anyone with no reprisals. They are wrong.
So are you.

Their words and actions bring reprisals. Your kind of words only encourages Terrorists.

JM didnt say your pov was not valid (though it is), he said shut the hell up.

This will increase the violence in the interim obviously, fire and brimestone just like the arabs describe. The most radical, and not so radical (see 60 year old in article) will line up like lemmings and the jews will cull them from the gene pool.

When do you think they will start firing on the funeral processions?

FrankD is right. The direct result of this killing is a number of retaliatory suicide bombings, which will justify a crackdown on Gaza, reinforce the need for the wall around the territory annexed in '67 etc. Sharon's MO. Why bother campaigning before an election, when a single inflammatory visit to a holy site will get the hornets buzzing?

How many additional suicide-bomber-belts will be constructed as the result of this? My guess- not many.

Some Israelis may die in the coming days, rather than in the coming weeks or months, that's the only difference. And as the attacks are likely to be hastily planned and carried out, it may be that fewer innocents will perish, and more SPBs (Self-Propelled Bombs) will be detonated prematurely. Whether more Israelis will die is a matter for conjecture. That more Palestinians will die is a tragic truth.

Hamas is already out to Exterminate the Jews. All the Jews. And the Rotarians, and the Lions Club members ( no-one ever said these guys were the sanest of people ). They can't exterminate them twice.

My wife is the sweetest, gentlest person imaginable. An Australian Catholic, so not pro-Jew or pro-Arab, just pro-Human. Her reaction to Sharon's action?

Good! Arafat Next!

Enough, already. Time to go after the rest of the Fatah and Hamas leadership, no holds barred. Israel's already been blamed for aggression and bloodthirstiness. Maybe it's time to try it out for real, as it appears restraint has not merely not worked, but encouraged the enemy. Israel has nothing to lose any more.

Good, I hope the come out in a large mass, and they can gun them down like the sick dogs they are.

The guy was a bloody terrorist. He deserves a public burning Kill them all. Every last one of the, and while your at it, take out Nobdy as well. That septic tank scum dosen't deserve to live either.

Picture of the demon belowSEE THE DEMON HERE
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"Israel obviously have no desire of honouring their part of the raodmap"

Rofl. Thanks, havent laughed that hard in a long time. How have the Palestinians done on dismantling the terrorist organizations in the last 3 years btw? Remember, the 1st step? If you think Israel is bound to an agreement the Palestinians have spent years wiping their asses with you are sadly mistaken.

"The direct result of this killing is a number of retaliatory suicide bombings, which will justify a crackdown on Gaza, reinforce the need for the wall around the territory annexed in ‘67 etc"

And this is a bad thing? Btw, if it was the territory annexed in 1967 the wall would be all the way around Israel plus the Sinai.

"Why bother campaigning before an election, when a single inflammatory visit to a holy site will get the hornets buzzing?"

This meme basically sums up the insanity and inanity of the Palestinian case. So a former Israeli general walked up a hill in Jerusalem. That was a good enough reason to start a reign of suicide bombings against civilians. Do you understand how idiotic that sounds? I dont care if John Kerry pisses on the Alamo, it wouldnt make me think that strapping a bomb to myself and walking on a school bus in Boston would be a good way to address the problem. I think we've had quite enough escuse making for the Palestinians. They have had their chance to make a peace. Now a peace will be enforced on them.

"He was a certainly a political target but not much of a military target."
------------------------------------------------------------
...whats the difference?Are you saying words are not as good as bullets in this region!!

The Palestineans should look at the bright side....their unemployment rates should decrease from a simple supply and demand standpoint...plus the demand on belts (and coffins) will surely improve that sector of the economy.

QUESTION:
Why, isn’t my POV as valid as yours!!!!


ANSWER:
------------------------------------------------------------
"What the Isralies have done by killing a wheel chair bound man is amazing. He was a certainly a political target but not much of a military target."
------------------------------------------------------------

The fact that you don't think he was a good military target suggests indicates that you don't have sufficient knowledge of the situation to be commenting on it.

THAT is why your opinion is not as valid.

By the way...

I do hope Hamas is kind enough to properly label their terrorist attacks so that we can the difference between the ones that are revenge for this incident and the ones that are just routine.

"And this is a bad thing? Btw, if it was the territory annexed in 1967 the wall would be all the way around Israel plus the Sinai."

Mark,

If the territory is annexed back then, the Palestinian would have fared better because they most likely be granted Israel citizenship.

This purgatory status that is the Palestinian teritory does no good to no one.

This pic reminds me of Anthony

Dody, that could never happen because of demographics alone. In a democracy Israel would cease to be Israel. There neednt be a purgatory. Israel simply needs to complete the wall as close to the green line as practical and declare their hands washed of Palestinians and that the Palestinians now have a de facto state in Gaza and the West bank. This of course is Arafat and his goons worst fear because running a government at peace is completely beyond him and he would quickly be revealed as the inept currupt thug that he is. That is why the wall is creating such disproportional emotionalism.

Mark,

I agree. The keyword is disengage.

The road map is a dead end because it is demanding of what the Palestinian incapable of. Hamas is a terrorist organization and yet I reckon they are less corrupt than the PLO. Both are dead ends.

This is place where people can say what they want to without being asked to shut up.
Stop behaving like kids and get real.

What if what you want to say is shut up? A paradox!

So the terrorists have declared "war." I am so surprised. They've always been so peaceful and non-violent.

Let's hope they do charge tanks and machine gun posts. It would make a change from blowing school children.

Boy, There is no better way to start my week, than a good story about an Islamic Holy Man, being disintegrated coming out of a mosque, in his wheel chair. Boy, I wish I could have seen the brief fear in his eyes, as the smoke trails neared.

How exactly does the International Community prefer that Israel respond, to the constant terror attacks against them. By just passively lay down like sheep at a slaughter house. The restraint Israel has shown, to not totally depopulate the West Bank & Gaza is a phenomenal case study in patience.

Hey Mark,

I live in San Antonio. Pissing on the Alamo is NOT a good thing! Agreed on the Bombs. Let's just make Kerry the pissing target, shall we? He deserves it.

Fat Guy says "The guy was a bloody terrorist. He deserves a public burning Kill them all. Every last one of the, and while your at it, take out Nobdy as well. That septic tank scum dosen’t deserve to live either".


So you want me dead as well eh! BUT don't balme me if Hamas now comes to the US and takes you or your friend or family out instead. Perhaps then you may want to think about what the Israelis have done.

Oh for the love of pete! The road map is dead because the Arabs don't want it, they want the Jews gone period! they yell and scream it. Are you deaf Dody?

here's more peacefull muslim stuff for you.
Muslim gangs hack to death mother and baby in Indonesia, where Dody claims they are so nice and peaceful.
Other stories refute that statement as well, but I can't post the link: uprizings have been going on there for 25 years. What sick animals people become when they become "muslims" It's an evil, blood letting cult. there is no other explanation. Ban the koran, kick them all out if they don't renounce Islam and take Christian studies. either that, or get out!!! Or fight now. We must wend this one way or another.


As far as Yassin is concerned, a mass murderer meets his end. The world should be celebrating.
What the hell is wrong with you sick people? I hope ww3 starts real soon. I really do. there needs to be a culling. Not just of the Islam side either. I'm disgusted with people. I really am. Bush should delclare marshal law, start drafting these idiots, and send them to meet Allahs warriors. dodgers get shot. It's just that simple. He can then legitamatly be called what you idiotic democrats keep insulting him with.

Fat Guy,

Move beyond the soundbites and we'll have an engaging conversation otherwise I won't waste my time with you.

" So a former Israeli general walked up a hill in Jerusalem. That was a good enough reason to start a reign of suicide bombings against civilians. Do you understand how idiotic that sounds?"

It does sound idiotic. I made no such normative statement, merely an observation. Your description of what occurred would have been enhanced if you had added this:
a former Israeli general who had lost his job due to his role in the slaughter of Palestinian women and children walked up a hill which Muslims believe is the site of Mohammed's ascension. A slightly different reading of what happened, and one that clearly understands the ramifications. Intifada rejoined, hardliners elected, bish bosh thank you and good night.

I don't think Christians are justified in responding violently to Orange Order marches in Northern Ireland, either, but I can see why it happens. God botherers of any stripe brandishing spears and pissing on territory. Who is arguing this is good? Oh, you are.

All,

Let me address a few things first.

///Why, isn’t my POV as valid as yours!!!!///

Its really very simple, NNTK, its because yours is wrong.

Sometime in the last 40 years, it has been inculcated as part of a portion of the American mindset that false ideas have as much to offer us as true ideas. This idea alone is abjectly false. Thus, that is why a true point of view is more valid than a false point of view. And that which is false should be learned from and discarded. You have done neither. And what you have stated in your very first post demonstrates not only ignorance of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but ignorance of terrorism in general. And once again you make, directly or indirectly, an internal Israeli problem the fault of the United States, or a reason why we should abandon a longtime ally and only democracy in the region. Lastly, by making the above statements you force people to be apologists for Israeli policy, whereas some of us can disagree with it without scapegoating the United States. And worst of all, you absolve the Palestinians and Hamas of any blame. Yup, he was just a plain ol' wheelchair bound quadriplegic like Christopher Reeve, minding his own business, and trying to make the world a better place.

Hamas. Ansar-al-Islam. Jemaah Islamiya. Al Qaeda. Same gig. Different names. Their goal is the same. When are you going to recognize this? The US is in the firing line now. Whether or not some murderous quadriplegic sheik is blown to bits by the Israelis.

And so you got a response that I would have given you had you been standing right next to me. And an appropriate one, at that. You have every right to say it, but you do not have the right to be responded to in any manner other than which your stupidity deserves (hear that, SweetLou?) Besides, NNTK, you generally get off easy here. Don't think its been forgotten that your response to the capture of Saddam Hussein was "This is a sad day for all Iraqis."

Yeah, I don't think they quite see it that way.

Johnny, your stupid liberal bullshit threshold seems to be rather low today.

Terrorism, overall has taken a good kick in the ass, over the last 4 days. Be happy man.

No amount of facts, or logic is going to stop these idiots from posting here. Responding to them, just forces them to fabricate some more, stupid bullshit.

Its just like the Israeli / Palestinian Conflict. Until my Government give me a legal green light to blow NNTKs head off, why even acknowledge his existence.

Yeah, I know, RT, there I go playing hall monitor again. :)

But sometimes certain things strike me in a certain way. And it bugs me when we see progress being made in the War on Terror that we still see the the same people find new ways to be blind to the realities around us or to make America responsible for the actions of others. It was truly a gut reaction. I get tired of hearing the country I love berated or made an accomplice in the actions of others.

So yeah, I'm nice sometimes and overt stupidity doesn't bother me, sometimes it irritates me and I just have to respond; it goes in phases. Right now I'm waxing.

And so are the Israelis. Ha!! I kill me! :)

Sorry. Extremely bad joke. :)

Thanks again, RT, even my levelheaded self has to be reminded not to feed the trolls perodically.

NNTK I'm usually pretty easy on your kind, but this is just plain STUPID - 'So you want me dead as well eh! BUT don’t balme me if Hamas now comes to the US and takes you or your friend or family out instead.'

Whatta you gonna do, order up a HamasHit? What do you know about FatGuy that we don't? Does he live in the US? Are you sure? How about if I repeat what he said, and I give you my address? Would you promise to pass it along to some of your 'friends'?

You are pathetic. Mohammedans like to blame ANYONE but themselves for their idiotic activities. I'm just going to blame you, and do you know why? Because your inflammatory rhetoric does nothing but reinforce that rationale. I do not agree with the Jewish 'eye for an eye' sense of Justice, but I certainly can understand why folks would be upset with Hamas. Let's see here, how many of the following are ACCEPTABLE behavior in this cult, as long as they are done in the name of allah? LYIN'? CHEATIN'? STEALIN'? RAPIN'? KILLIN'? DId I miss any? You're right. NOBODY needs to know. Idiot.

The solution to end this partisan bickering here, will prove as elusive as a negotiated peace between Israel and the Arabs.

No one is prepared to view the flaws in their argument, and be the first one to lower their weapon. In a nutshell, Nobody wants Peace enough to agree with ideas, that don't match their own.

But it does make us feel better, to point out to them, the flaws in their argument, dont it.

:)

Damn, That was 3 complete paragraphs there Cap'n. You must really be pissed off, today too.

Don't sprain your typing finger. ( I only use one digit too.)

"No one is prepared to view the flaws in their argument, and be the first one to lower their weapon. In a nutshell, Nobody wants Peace enough to agree with ideas, that don’t match their own."

This is a wonderful quote to keep.

Well, Thanks Dody. It was part of a speech about life my big brother gave me years ago. The second part of that speech was "If there was only 2 humans on the planet, and each owned half the planet, they would attempt to kill each other, for the other half."

His other words of wisdom was " every woman has to cry, once a month about something." They both have proven to be true.

Im still trying to digest Johnnys "Sometime in the last 40 years, it has been inculcated as part of a portion of the American mindset that false ideas have as much to offer us as true ideas. This idea alone is abjectly false. Thus, that is why a true point of view is more valid than a false point of view."
Boy does that ring true, throughout society, not just on foriegn affairs issues.

"a former Israeli general who had lost his job due to his role in the slaughter of Palestinian women and children walked up a hill which Muslims believe is the site of Mohammed’s ascension. "

I dont care if it was the guy that assaulted mohammeds corpse trying to take a dump in Mecca. Dont you understand that nothing excuses targetting children? Dont you understand that 'understanding' that kind of sentiment only enourages it? Im so sick of hearing of the vaunted Arab 'pride'. Guess what, adults are expected to swallow their pride on occasion, certainly not to take out their emasculation on innocents. This is a pissing contest, nothing more. Its the Middle East equivalent of Warren Sapp running through the Redskins warmups. If Lavar Arrington decided to machine gun the crowd in response, would you ask the league to consider his hurt feelings before they carted his ass off to the electric chair?

Dang it, RT Where did I go wrong?

Sorry, Guys but I feel the need to display some Bi-Partisanshipness ( 19 Cap'n , Tell Pass, my Kung Fu is the Best ) here. Which means you piss off more people at one time.

How to hell did the ancient religious hatred between the Muslims and the Jews, get to be my fault, anyway.

The events that led up to it, happened before I was "In Charge". I am no Scholar on the subject, but here is what I think occurred:

1. The Governments of Europe felt guilty about letting Germany commit attempted Genocide. And felt sorry for the Jews, yet not quite sorry enough to want to let them Immigrate to where the money was, their home Countries.
2. Britain was looking for a way to get the hell out of Palestine, without appearing to be responsible for the Religious Warfare that was about to burst.
3. The newly formed UN, wanted to show the world how good at Nation Building it could be. They dont like it anymore. And Forming a Jewish State, In the Middle of the Muslim World, seemed like a better idea, than letting them stay in Europe.
4. The Next Day the Combined Arab Armies attacked them from all sides.
5. Europe was prepared to stand by and watch the Jews be slaughtered again, but America Fed the Tenacious Fighting Spirit of the New Israeli Army, with Superior Technology.
6. Israel has creatively resurveyed their UN gerrymandered border, on several occasions, due to security concerns.
7. France helped them build a Nuclear Reactor and weapons.
8. These people will never live in peace. Tel Aviv will be Ground Zero for the first WMD Islamic Terrorist acquire.

That Dumb-ass NNTK, has a point. What Strategic Value to America does Israel Serve. It sucks as a Christian vacation spot. And they cant be an active participant in any military conflict we might be in, in the Middle East. Sure they are Technically a Democracy, but due in large part to 3 billion $US a year for 50 years. Hell yea, they want to be our friends, they unlike the Arabs can be bought. If the Palestinians were allowed the right of return, the next election cycle will never occur. They will choose Jewish State, over Jewish Democracy. And I wouldn't blame them. The Arabs are the only side in this war, that use prefer Suicide Recon Troops.

Sharon has shown Bush very little respect, flagrantly choosing survival of his people, over our current political needs in the Middle East.

I'm proposing we learn from our only True Ally the Bloody British. Lets stop Vetoing UN proposals to send Peacekeeping troops to the Region. Lets let it be a French speared initiative, let them get troops on the ground, then pull a Spain. Withdraw all Troops and support for Israel, and continue to abstain in the UN, and let Kofi and Chirac MC the problem in the future.

Mark

You, and indeed anybody else would also, lose me after the words pissing contest. I don't know who Lavar Sapp is, or why said chap warming up his red skin is akin to Sharon ordering an execution so he can roll the tanks into Gaza. Maybe I should get out more... or stay in. I'm suddenly not sure.

RT

You don't have to wait long. The Jews are returning to the Holy Land so the Messiah can return. When he does, we can all go home and forget it all happened. Except those of us who are destined to burn forever. It's a difficult one to call, this donkey derby of divine vengeance.

You know Mr.Banana, I see the world through Secular Eyes. Any further details would be too off-topic for even me.
But Cap'n am I missing a popular Christian preference that Jews occupy the Holy Land, as opposed to the Muslims. Is there some prophecy that is being played out here I am not aware of.

RT

The political migration you referred to was an acceleration of a process begun in the previous century; the British Mandate of Palestine addressed the resultant Arab/Jew friction. Rabbinical thinking is split (who'd a thunk it - intra-religious schism!) as to the role the Jews should play in the coming of the Messiah.

Fact is, all 3 Abrahamic religions think they're it, the others are losers in the divine 'crap-shoot', as I believe you say over there, the Holy Land is theirs by right and spending 2 millenia breaking heads over it is tough love, but all worth it in the long run. In this donkey derby, my money's on the celestial knacker's yard. If only...

"Sharon ordering an execution so he can roll the tanks into Gaza."

Would you expect GW Bush to roll tanks into Tiajuana if the Mexicans were launching rockets and mortars into southern California?

Oh, I see....well that kind of complicates making a rational decision then, dont it.

What with re-election being such a such a prized position, Over Here.

"What the Isralies have done by killing a wheel chair bound man is amazing."


Agreed.


"He was a certainly a political target but not much of a military target."


I disagree, as do the Israelis. Same goes for Osama Bin Laden.


"Israel obviously have no desire of honouring their part of the raodmap….indeed for them there is no (and never has been) a roadmap worthy of signing… i.e. they are not interested in peace as they want to
keep the occupied lands for themselves."


I'd like to see all necessary measures, including economic and military if necessary, taken to force Israel back to the 1967 borders.


"The worst thing about this is that it puts us (the US) in the firing line."


Disagree.


"Hamas may well bring the battle to teh US mainland."


Good. The terrorists on flight 77 and the shoe bomber found out what happens when you attack an enemy who's awake.


" ….and we certainly don’t have a wall around our country."


Astute.


"We need to detach ourselves away from the Israelis."


Feel free.


"If a sigle US (Washington in particular) citizen dies from this action then it’s one too many."


Yup, and the killers will pay.


"Hamas & Israel need to sort it out themselves, leave us out of
it…"


Like it or not, we're already in it. Ask Osama.


"One of the best ways of doing this is to stop funding Israel"


You never actually been in a fight, much less won one, have you?


"instead let’s send that money on our deservind causes."


We? Hands out of my pocket, bub. I'll spend mine the way I choose. As for tax money, our elected governemt will distribute it as they see fit. If you don't like the way they spend it, feel free to elect someone else. Or try and fail and then sit around and whine because the majority doesn't agree with you.


"Now get out there and arrest someone!!!!!"


Legs broke?

Mark

US/Mexico is not the same as Israel/Palestine, and if it were there would be the same widespread condemnation as there is of Sharon's latest use of weaponry to raise the local temperature. Jeebus, I'm not making a choice between 2 evils, just pointing out the cynicism of the move. Such restraint, indeed. Jews are more likely to die. Hooray.

In 30 years time, when your CinC is President Bumblebee Man, you'll need to find a different analogy. Ay ay ay!

Banana,

The equivalent number by population would be (in this intifada) in the United States; 16,000 dead and 93,000 injured. If this were another country on our borders doing this, how long do you think it would be before there was not left one stone to place upon another in that country? That's the difference. Someone above, I believe, hit the nail on the head when they called the Israeli action not inciteful or too harsh, but rather a case-study in self restraint.

I'd like to see the basis for your figures - I did show you my 42%. Let's see the equivalent number of paraplegics.

$20bn wiped of global stocks, the condemnation of every government in the world save one, thousands massing on the streets in protest, over 80% of Israelis of the opinion that it would lead to more terror attacks (and 60% supporting - go figure). What, I wonder, would happen if Sharon weren't so restrained?

Actually, its only based on my estimate, banana, strictly based on population proportion. Number of people in Israel killed/wounded as a proportion of their overall population vs the US for sheer population size. There is no way that we in the US would put up with those numbers. Ever.

As for being restrained, I find it difficult to see how you could argue that a conflict with such a vast military gap is not restrained, when in fact what the Palestinians have been doing are acts of war. The Palestinians are constantly in cameras saying they want death to Israel, they want war, and then when they get it, they whine because they got their collective asses kicked. Consider Israel's easy ability to launch cluster bombs into one of those thousand strong little hate parades they're famous for and tell me that a missile into the murderous Hamas Founder is unrestrained. Nice try.

///over 80% of Israelis of the opinion that it would lead to more terror attacks (and 60% supporting - go figure).///

Aye, there's the rub. You really don't understand that there's not a paradox here, do you? Its kind of a loaded question, because it doesn't set parameters like short-term or long-term. I think the majority of Israelis have resolved themselves to the fact that a peaceful settlement cannot be reached as long as inherent in the peace process is the non-recognition of Israel's right to exist. Moreover, despite that, they just seem to keep electing these guys, don't they? What might they know that we don't?

///the condemnation of every government in the world save one, ///

Uhhh..hyperbole alert. Only if you define condemnation as "lack of expression of support for Israel" in which case there was no exception, not even the United States, despite your attempt to make us accomplices.

Sometime in the last 40 years, it has been inculcated as part of a portion of the American mindset that false ideas have as much to offer us as true ideas. This idea alone is abjectly false. Thus, that is why a true point of view is more valid than a false point of view. And that which is false should be learned from and discarded. You have done neither. And what you have stated in your very first post demonstrates not only ignorance of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but ignorance of terrorism in general. And once again you make, directly or indirectly, an internal Israeli problem the fault of the United States, or a reason why we should abandon a longtime ally and only democracy in the region. Lastly, by making the above statements you force people to be apologists for Israeli policy, whereas some of us can disagree with it without scapegoating the United States. And worst of all, you absolve the Palestinians and Hamas of any blame. Yup, he was just a plain ol’ wheelchair bound quadriplegic like Christopher Reeve, minding his own business, and trying to make the world a better place.p>

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