Considering that Microsoft, GE and a lot of other US firms are creating a lot of unemployment in Silicon Valley and other domestic locations to export jobs to India, the least they can do in return is deal directly with us, not with the anti American bungholes at the UN.
If they are going to start playing that game with us, we need to slam MS and the other US firms with high tariffs and eliminate applicable corporate tax breaks to make employing Indians less profitable than employing Americans.
Then ask India whom they wish to deal with.

Seth - The $50,000/yr US job goes for $5,000/yr in India. Do you think it is conceivable to slap that big a tariff on MS?

For once, Anthony, I see wisdom in what you say; I think that was more an emotional outburst- I have quite a few acquaintances here who are having a bit of a rough time over the exported jobs concept, all in high tech fields.

Seth - Are you aware that the 'killing babies' post had nothing to do with me? That was the one the inspired your "Ruth Buzzi" post?

After thinking about it, Anthony, I didn't think it was in character for you.
Despite your profound, stubborn left wing bias, I have enough respect for you to believe that you somehow believe what you espouse, and that you wouldn't post something like that.
So I believe you, and apologize for the Ruth Buzzi thing.

Apology accepted. And I'm not as left as you think. I consider myself more of a centrist.

BTW. Alan posted a comment near the end of the thread, regarding the incident.

I don't recall Alan's post, but the thread might've been gone before I saw it.
What was his comment?

Anthony is right: he did not post that comment. I've deleted the comment, and banned the IP address of the person who made the post.

Apologies all around, I think ...

Posted by Alan at July 12, 2003 02:17 PM

Here is the link. http://www.command-post.org/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=7916

Awesome move, Alan! Got rid of that #&%*%^ in a timely and perspicacious manner.
Now, there's this guy named Arafat....

I have been busy, and also even when I do read the news on CP,( and I read some comments as well) I haven't added my own, I will say it's because i'm simply tired of endless, repetitive nonsense, and just plain rudeness of certain others, plus I just don't have time.

But on pure comment note, I was under the impression that India was willing to add some forces, pending financial aid. I wonder what the deal is here all of a sudden.
Also, I haven't had time yet to see if India had canceled other commitments, eg: congo and liberia.

anyone have a clue?

I will also add I'm very, very disapointed with America over this beef issue, which is partly why I've been so busy.
This is fast becomming an issue internationaly, I don't know if anyone has been watching it.
Europe is saying America is banning the beef even though it was an American cow that had BSE, and Japan is saying that they will not take american beef if America opens the border.

So Europe is saying America is doing this because America is pissed that Canada didn't support America in Iraq, Which I think is bull shit, but none the less, thats what the news is.

So, I've been busy as an independant selling feed to help out the feed lot cattle farms, actually, I'm giving it away free, so seth, look for a shortage of grain on the market this fall, LOL
All new crop won't be sold either, so Americans better start saving feed, because your not going to be getting alot from this side if this continues.

American cattle stocks are low, so a crunch is going to happen real soon

Also seth, and I'm telling you this because you expressed intrest in commodities,
That Canada is back up full with fat cattle, so we are shipping it off almost for free to non- embargo countries, so there won't be any chap cows/feeders around when America thinks they need to replentish their herds.
Guess where it's all going, Afghanistan, Europe.

Fill your freezer, cause bef is going to get real expensive, much to the veggie people's delight

Anthony, protectionizm only goes so far,
Do you think by slapping tariffs on trade to protect American intrests will really work?

It only makes it easier to do business elsewere. America isn't the only game on the planet you know.
what it does is toss the USA closer to a deep resession, at a time when the rest of the planet has already been dealing with it.
Just how will America trade when there is nothing for America to trade with?
At the deficit now, the eU will recover faster than the USA, and the USA trough will be deeper and harder to get out of.
Tarriffs only make it worse.
with WTO's agreements, if America can just slap trade tarriffs on, whats stopping other countries from doing the same? NOTHING.
This is bushes biggest mistake, is trade tarrifs, and they are at their limit now.
America just lost a steel trade tarrif ruling with the WTO. This means smarten up bush, you can't float industry on tarrifs. If the USA defies the ruling, it means no more steel at that price, counter tarrifs. bye bye steel industry, bye bye american jobs, bye bye spending power, bye bye auto production hello deeper recession.

Bush better think and stop that and expand trade instead, makes things cheaper as well as makes more jobs

The Meme of so called exporting IT jobs to India is in large bogus. Even with the economy the way it is and the tech market the way it is Tech companies CAN NOT find enough competent and skilled IT workers.

Much of what MS, IBM, Oracle and other are doing is setting up facilities in areas where there are large numbers of highly skilled and well educated English speaking workers. This has been happening in India since the mid 80’s (with mostly large financial firms and banks going to India to find developers who could support and develop applications on there old legacy systems mostly written on COBAL and using IBM main frames of which young American programmers had no experience with). Companies are also going to Ireland, Canada, now Eastern Europe or anywhere else they can find the talent and skills they need to get the work done.

And this is a great thing for US companies! There just is not enough talent here and especially with how hard it is to get go H1 visa workers into the country after 9-11 what do people expect? That US companies should stop developing new products and services or stop supporting old systems just because they cant find enough workers in the country? France did this under Dugal and their computer/software industry never recovered.

Hum, somtimes i can only wonder about things happen. This came unecpected even for me.
But on a closer look it makes sense, India is positioning himself as an Nuclear Power, why should they support the largest one? They can only profit if the USA lose some feathers in Iraq.
So for them it's a win win situation if the USA fail in Iraq. Also it's not very popular in India to send Troops under US command.
Think that's the point here, not under US command.

Just to be sure, the only troops that got permanent attacked are US Troops. I think this is not only an localization issue.
The Brits handle things far diffrent that US.
This is an Article from Raed, a well known Iraqi blogger wich gives a good insight view what's diffrent in Basra.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,989084,00.html

I think the postphoned departure of the 3rd Army is directly linked to the not available indian Troops.
But that's only a guess, have no proof for. :-)

Anyway, Soldiers are pissed, Relatives are upset. Think that will stirr up the trouble even more.
Everyone know, you have to replace battled Soldiers after a time, or they will have bad moral and even suicides or self wounding will rise. A shoot in your foot, and you can fly home. You need only to pull the trigger. This becomes more and more tempting over time. Females have the baby card as return ticket. ;-)

Well this all show only one, bad planning. The US Administration are nuts, the whole World start to laugh about the one and only 'Hyperpower'.
Well all in the USA is bigger as anywhere else, even if you screw up.

robi

Bill Gates recently spent a lot of time in India during which he outlined plans to initiate training programs geared toward eventually moving a large portion of his operations there. Here in the U.S. we have more than enough people who could be trained- it's not only the high end talent he seeks, it's rank and file positions for which any number of Americans qualify in terms of aptitudes and ambition; It's just cheaper to employ people in India.
Customer Support is a prime example: Those jobs don't require any kind of talent that isn't copiously available in the U.S., and while they don't even pay a lot by U.S. standards- $25,000- $30,000.00 a year, tops, there are thousands of unemployed Americans who could and would jump on them simply to have a job in the current economy.
But those positions are being exported in significant numbers.
Call GE Customer Support, or those of any number of other American tech firms like ISPs and telecoms, and you'll find yourself talking to someone in Bangalore.

India as far as software development goes are a very bright group. However, the market isn't in India, it's in North America, and western Europe, eat Asia.
here in Canada, there has been a fast growing development from some India companies, as ell as a market in canadian companies, both of which have found roots withing the USA as well.
So robi is quite correst in his statement.
America benifits from this type of growth as those offices employ americans, as ell as sharp minds from all over the globe.
talent comes from everywhere, and business knows no borders.
labor is also a factor, so seth has that adressed as well,
canada, being a very good communications tech centre, has alot of American companies on this side of the border, labor cost in communications is a factor. Good english speaking in that market is also a factor, so canada serves that need for american customer service in that respect.
I have some knowlage of that because my younger son works in that field.

In southern USA, where spanish in more prevelent, it's probably based in mexico

Bubba;

You have now plunged me into research mode. Over the next couple of days I need to look at some stuff.
Thought we had a sure sell side here, but now, from what you say, things have changed and long positions in grains may be indicated. Maybe also in cattle.
Do you have any sites I can go to for a look at the WTO, Japan and U.S./ Canada trade details?
re your reference to the steel industry, back in the 1980s in New York I had a friend who traded in steel for a Canadian firm, and she told me back then of the competition with Japan.
It seems that whenever Japan exports anything, they have a policy of overcompeting; Don't share the industry, try to eliminate the competition. They excelled(and still do to some extent) at that on the automotive end, and in electronics.

Seth, Chicago is where I deal commodities, it's the central hub of it all. all canadian futures plug into chicago.

I don't mean to be crude, or make light of past events, but, when those terrorists took out the trade centre, they missed, chicago is the real center.

I KNOW from whats going on here, that there is going to be alot of fat cattle on the market when the sactions are lifted.
also, by looking at whats been traded on the USA side, American cattle producers are running out of cattle, which short terM, drives prices up.
some might hope for a glut of canadian bef, but i don't think it will happen.
I'll stick to the other thread rather than bounce back and forth

Crap, I lost track of where I was, doing too many things at once

I have been to the CBOT. It's an impressive place, for damn sure.
I used to make trips to Chi all the time, back in the 1980s. My old firm had its main Chicago branch office there on Wacker Drive. Great party town.
There are one or two locals I know at the Board of Trade whom I still talk to fairly often, one of them came out to visit us a couple of years ago with his wife.

WTO you can find parameters at
http://www.wto.org/

That contains gatt as well, or try
http://www.ciesin.org/TG/PI/TRADE/gatt.html

Nafta is
http://www-tech.mit.edu/Bulletins/nafta.html

Cattle isn't my thing, I do hogs, which is generally by contract. most livestock is.
Grains are governed, and are covered by nafta. exceptions for feed grains and certain others

http://www.manitobapork.com/index.cfm?pageID=1

Pig news, just for your entertainment, lOL

Bubba

I've bookmarked 'em all, including the Manitoba Pork Council site, for study after my "morning" coffee in a few hours, when I'm more alert.
The MPC one should be good reading, get me ready to do another pork roast on my BBQ. I use mesquite charcoal and indirect cooking.
MMMMMMMMMMM!

I have alot of relatives in chicago.

My grandfather snagged his wife there during the dirty 30's when he was riding the rails looking for work, LoL

farming is a game, you have to hedge alot, keep an eye on conditions, talk to alot of people.

Hog farming is all marketing, cpc(canadian pork concil) mpc(Manitoba pork concil) cpi (Canadian pork international )are all marketing associations where you find people/countries to sell to.

price is fixed via Chicago, it's the hub price, you dicker around that.
thats why futures are really important, if you get nailed with high feed costs, you sink your ship, so to speak.
so as a general rule, you watch what feed conditions are. finnishing stockyards are very vulnerable to that.
I don't have that worry, as I have a sow/weinling operation, I don't finnish very many of them. And I grow my own feed, which is why I'm in the feed market, I grow way more than I need. you need a large land base for alot of hog production.

I usually dump alot of feed at this time on the market,(empty the bins to make room for this yers crop) and it reflects it at this time of year, USUALLY.
I'm not dumping on the market this year though, it's all going to local need.
So, the futures are wrong now, so watch them hit the roof in a month or two when harvest gets in full gear. that will mean higher feed costs, translating to higher cattle price, add a shortage to that. The unknown is how fast the border opens, and whats left to dump in it.
Loys will be wasted by then it looks like. border doesn't look like it's going to open till fall.

So there ya have it, insider info, LOL. Pork will climb because of demand as well, and shorter supplies due to feed shortage

All that spells inflation, which means gold will hit 400 by october.

just my prediction of course, but hell, I did good on gold this year and the last, i bought in at 263, and no way am I going to do any selling for a while.

I've made up my mnd what I'm going to do.
Thanks for the help seth, loL
go with slightly short pork,, carefull on the beef, keep track of this border thing.

Reason I'm going to cut pork production is two fold,

If beef floods, pork will sink like a rock,
If beef stays on the hoof, feed shortage, high prices for pork, less demand at high prices, make up any shortfalls on grains, pluss less work all winter, sounds good to me

sounds tasty!
I roast so many pigs on the spit, i just use propane it's less work, LoL

I need shut eye too. I hate this time of year because I have to make hard choices. add some bad weather in my predictions, and you'll really see a high priced market, especially since US corn doesn't seem to be doing well this year

on that MPC page, some of those pics are my farm.

WHOA! The door is wide open, here.
(1) 'Off-shore' technobabble. Done that. Been there for the last 3 years, in cahoots with LARGE tech outfit via contract, and local contact for off-shore code, along with local presence. I have a difficult time understanding their accented English, and although they are (I think in part) understanding the message they are being given, they nod their heads in affirmation, whilst saying 'yes,yes'. A smile is usually moved in place soon thereafter. It is a constant battle to make sure that technical and business requirements are met, because the message 'THIS DOES NOT MEET SPECIFICATIONS' means very little. Programmers are writing while we are sleeping. It feels like the local contact is sleeping most of the time. Oh well.
BEEF. WHERE'S THE BEEF? Inlaws are playing this game, and not nearly as big as Bubba is in the pork, but it's a family business (farm/ranch) that has been operating for over 100 years. They are hurting. NAFTA hurt them in the grains. A weaker CAN dollar hurts them (and helps the CAN feedlot operator) who can purchase calves, haul them North, feed them up, slaughter them, and haul them South to sell - and it isn't on a slim margin, because as Bubba can tell you, he's getting better than 30cents+ on the product that he wouldn't get if he sold incountry.
I listen to the Agreport done by a guy named Taylor Brown, a former partner with Conrad Burns, one of our Senators. HE SAYS (as of a week ago) that the restriction on beef moving South is going to end soon. How does he know this? Hell, I don't know.
Mad Cow occurs SPONTANEOUSLY. Odds of occurence IN SPECIES is about one in a million. Study is being done in the same lab (with another lab on the way) that found the cure for Rocky Mountain spotted fever to uncover the mechanism by which MC crosses the species barrier. What causes young people to acquire this disease? Well, in Europe, the only mechanism that was suspect was same-species protein feed, meaning what doesn't get consumed by the consumer, is consumed by the consumed. Meat packing 'industrial' methods of converting the animal into product. How is the animal killed? They used to shoot them, between the eyes with a pistol, and before that, hit them with a blunt instrurument. Had a neighbor once who killed his prize Herford bull with a rock...
Anyway, method now is AIR, same method used in the military for innoculations. High pressure hose. What happens to brain tissue under pressure in a closed veinous system? It goes to the lungs and liver. Where is the site for the disease itself? Brain stem and the brain itself.
Sad thing about MadCow is the incubation period of the disease under normal circumstances - 20 years.
For our Southern Bubbas in the audience, the ones who like to eat squirrels, there has been studies of MadCow potentially crossing the species barrier from squirrels to humans. Why? Squirrel brains are a delicasy... Go figure. Oh yah - The symptoms are the same as Alzheimers, which is how it was discovered in Brittain. How does a 30year old acquire Alzheimers? Pass? LOL.

Bubba said "Do you think by slapping tariffs on trade to protect American intrests will really work?"

I meant that has a rhetorical question to Seth. I don't think that tariffs are the answer in this case.

What's you opinion on why America is banning the Canadian beef?

Anthony,
MadCow scare. And, BTW, CANadians consider themselves American. It's the US that currently has a ban on beef from CANada.

Dave - I knew about the MadCow scare. It didn't seem to make sense, when the story first broke. I haven't kept up with it. I just wonder if there is more to it than that.

Yes - and they are aren't they. I should have said US.

Anthony, why is the beef ban still on? mainly because of Japan right now. Playing games.

Over the weekend, the Japanese trade minister said that if America lifts the Ban, they will not accept American beef imports. So it doesn't look like the ban will be lifted anytime soon.

All the data is in on that ONE BSE case, and it turns out that one cow came from the USA in the first place.
Mad cow they suspect is caused by what dave said, Animal by product, brain and spine, in animal feed.
Canada has banned that practice sinse 1997, American Beef feedlots haven't as yet.

Intresting to note that the odd case still shows up in the UK, but the beef is moving, although they still haven't recovered from that.

And yes, that -30 cent dollar helps alot, plus labor costs are lower as well. Rizing $$ hurts the bottom line, but Dave, I could compete producing on either side of the border, LOL

problem is it takes a long time to set up shop state side, all the hoops you have to jump through, finding a land base, etc. I wouldn't do it at my age.

Bubba - LOL. I wouldn't do it at ANY age! My kids are in 4-H. I've done my share of pullin' calves. Also, being aware of 'Alternative Livestock' resources (like Elk) where MC is a distinct possibility makes me cogniscent of the hurdles of being a MadCapitalist. I always thought being in AgriBusiness was akin to gambling. I'm not much into porkbellies except for the eatin' side of the equation!

Bubba - Your talking about Mad cow and canabalism?

Anthony,
You are misunderstanding BubbaSpeak. Animal protein is fed to animals of like species in the Agribusiness industry. Or, should I say, USED to be fed. Primary reason is the species fed to itself is more easily assimilated and utilized in the growth mechanism. The problem with feeding animal protein is the source of the animal protein itself. I put it this way - What is not consumed by the consumer (the BEEF) is or was utilized by the industry (soft tissues, etc.) to create animal protein. Every part of the animal is used. Thus, infected animals were not only reinfecting (long incubation period), but then, inexplicably, the disease crossed the species barrier - and MadCow became an issue. The human equvalent (Krutchfeld-Jacobs (sp)) is noted in cannibalistic tribes in the wilds of Borneo, I believe. Canabals.

So, Dave
How do Elk in the wild get this shit?

So, Dave
How do Elk in the wild get this shit?

Posted by commander at July 15, 2003 02:23 PM

Cmdr- While the diseases ARE related, they are not the same and science had not been able to prove that scrapie in sheep (also caused by prions!) could be transmitted to cattle, elk, etc.

All of them (MC, Scrapie, C-J, CWD) are caused by "abnormal protiens" (prions) which are smaller than a virus (precursors even!) and they accumulate in the brain (because they are "folded") and cannot be utilized like other/normal protiens (They have found that these prions can also convert the normal prions/proteins into folded/abnomal prions!). As they collect, they cause the death of brain cells and microscopic holes develop (hence the term for all of these: spongiform encephalopathy.

BSE is thought to have come from a spore. Affected animal carry this in their brain an spinal tissue, which is thought to be spread further by Animal by product being re- fed back to animals.

Wild elk herds can get this naturally as well, it is thought that it is caused by spreading of these spores, which can be air born as well.
No proof of that though, it's theory.
Also these spores are thought to be spread by hoof
which is why you had to walk through the squishy pad and have your shoes cleaned if you traveled to the UK during the BSE outbreak there.

Elk herds in the wild haven't had that, I think dave is referring to Tame herds.
Wild herds sometimes get a TB outbreak, (tuberculosis) which is why hunters at times are required to send in tissue samples to conservation offices. At least we do in Canada, same for moose, deer caribou .

I should note that BSE doesn't really harm the meat itself, it is like defender said, a spore of sub virus that lodges in soft tissue of the brain and maybe, they think, spinal colums.

How is it spead to humans? don't eat weiners, LOL
just don't eat things made from animal by- products, they include things like brains....

That sheep thing was just part of the UK BSE scare, what they thought was that the sheep were speading BSE by hoof, but they aren't affected by BSE, they are rumnants as well, and animal feed isn't given to them as far as I know.

After that BSE scare in the UK, which DEVASTTED their industry, animal feed containing animal by product was banned. canada banned it in 1997,

America is the only country that hasn't as yet,
western country I mean

Bubba - Thanks. 'Alternative Livestock'=tame Elk. We've destroyed one herd, and SCORCHED the earth in one case, because of BSE. I was serious about the squirrels - wonder about gerbils, though. LOL.

Better ask Gas about what gerbils spread, must be some kind of methane producing spore that science has no name for yet, except "Pass the Gas".

If I recall, there was one outbreak in the northern states and canada in the wild of BSE, back in '67 I think.
It's really just a naturally occurring thing like you said.
The build up seems to be caused by feeding captive herds, fed that has animal by product.

That Elk thing wasn't too long ago was it?
I think some captive herds got torched in Alberta as well, maybe the same operation? or a breeder supply thing?
I can't recall. I was thinking the elk herds here was a TB thing, but I could be wrong, Sometimes my memory brain cells fuse together, but at least I still have them, unlike PtG, who admits he's fried most of his with psychedelic drugs and cheap sluts, social diseases.

(I couldn't help myself, I just had to toss that in there)

Seth:
I keep forgetting to leave a post for you regarding last nights comments.

That bad weather thing, it hit hard south of me while I was gabbing, red river valley, potage winkler, grentna by the US border, heavy hail, F1 tornado's. Lots of crop damage, especialy Corn, sunflower and lenthals

Bubba - Alberta operation got an animal from the one here. Tested positive. Hence, the scorching. Seems like MN or WS has the issue, and I know it is present in CO in the wild (deer). Method of transmission is still speculation, esp. regarding cross-species transmission. Talk about folks gettin' squirrely in their old age. LOL.

Hell Dave, it's not really a big deal, just carry matches and cook your meat, LOL

makes you wonder about sushi bars, doesn't it? LOL

What we do here as far as TB(tuberculosis) goes in the wild herds, is if a lot of samples from hunters come in testing positive (doesn't mean the meat is no good, just cook it)
They innoculate as many as they can by helicopter.
Helps keep the herds healthy.
If we did what the anti hunting, anti life people want, there would be no wild animals.
Mother nature has a nasty habit of killing them off.

Bubba - I eat all my fish cooked. LOL. Just like here. That's why I refer to playin' with Pass as 'hookin' and cookin'. LOL.

Lurkin'... The nerve of that guy. I never met a sentence I couldn't work an apostrophe into, even if I have to go danglin' participles.

Here, hunting fees go a long way to provide funds for conservation efforts.
Anti hunters want the tax payer to foot the bill rather than us savages shooting and eating the bounty god put on the earth for us to manage and feed ourselves with.

I couldn't imagine life without my wild meat in the freezer, LOL
I was raised on it, it's a way of life. I'd go nuts if I never had wild meat at least once a week in my diet.
It is lean, plus it's full of minerals and vitamins you just can't get from chewing on green stuff and tofu

Bubba - my chest freezer's gettin' thinned out. Another 6 weeks. My kids like it. Lucky for you, they like the bacon (CANadian) as much as I do. That's the only animal we buy at the store...

LOL

he does come up with some amazing BS doesn't he?
I just had to point it out when he said he was meeting clients in his hotel room, 14 of them, while posting constantly on ComPo.
Plus he's got his 14 year old daughter captive for these meetings as well, So that gives me a bad mental image as to what PtG is doing.

Why does he have to take the metro to a hotel room?
doesn't make sense. And a punch clock too? hmmmm.

I must of missed it, but why does he claim to be super businessman at?

I do allot of business, and I've never met "clients" in cheap motel rooms.

HMMMM.

Cheap hotel rooms. Does kinda make you wonder just what business he's in, doesn't it?

Like Homer Simpson says, "that wonderful magical animal" LoL

I shot six deer, and a moose last fall, all gone almost.
The boys can eat a deer in a week.

This year, My army son should be home for hunting season, (he's still in Ky right now) so we are going to do the 3 season thing,( bow musket and rifle)deer, moose, elk.
Still waiting on my elk draw though, otherwize I'll have to travel into the general area, it's draw around here.

deer are easy, they walk right by my house every day. But being a law abiding citizen, I only shoot in season, plus I only shoot bucks in the 300 lb range(undressed)

Seth;
Ya, it sure does. did you see his snarly post on the other thread when I question the issue with DCT? LOL
Guess I hit a sore spot to make him start explaining himself.
Then he gives me more ammo by saying he was a screwed up druggie in his younger days...
Not the brightest bulb in the pack that boy..

You guys - You keep it up, I can see he's goin' to be makin' a trip to Dr. Bubba for a Sphincter Tuck and that doesn't include the Veinous Resection required on his furrowed (but very high) brow.

Crap, Bubba. I forgot about the Deviated Septum he's goin' to have to get fixed, once he picks his nose up off the mirror he used to have in the bathroom.

LOL
Dave, he reminds me of this guy we used to pick on in high school, "micheal suckoloski"
The name says it all, and his mother was belgium, and dressed him funny.
I saw him in town a while ago, he still dresses the same. For a while he went goth, but I guess his mother straightened him out...

Dave, i can see going hunting and fishing with a person like you, and others that post here, even if they don't hunt of fish, they'd come along for the campfire stories etc.
But could you imagine what would happen if I ever ran into gasman? LOL

Bubba - Uhhh. Nope. I'll bite... LOL

I have visions of nasty collage pranks, does that help? LOL

Maybe some navy guys can give me some ideas on razing....

Well as i remember the main case for BSE was the feeding of herbivores like cattles with meat and bone meal.
These meat and bone meal was contaminated with Sheep cadavers that died from scrapie, a well know illnes in combination with sheeps but completly unknown with cattles so far.

The meat and bone meal wasn't cooked with high enough temperatures to destroy all denatured proteins found in the the Sheep brains.

So that illness scrapie jumped the species boarder, now known as BSE.

Conclusions from that were boiling of meat and bone meal with far higher temperatures as usual before. Also a temporary stop of of feeding such meal to cattles occured.

The real problems arised as these prions jumped again a species boarder to humans. First cases were in England to see with people who eated regulary Fast food Burger. These illness seems to be linked to Creutzfeld Jacob, the Brain tissue vanish and only large regions filled with water remain. Personality loss and a general degeneration of mental abilites are followed by a unaviodable death.
So far no cure possible.

Btw the possibility Scrapie might jumb species boarders were well known in Britain in the 80th.
Commercial interests prevented the banning of Scrapie cadavers for the production of meat and bone meal. So it's for sure a manmade catastrophy.

Hum, has nothing to do with the thread thematic as i see, but anyway. :-)

well guy's,
a good place I've found to check out BSE is Animal Pharm by Mark Purdy. He claims it is an enviromental problem created by man, specifically organophosphates, The claim is made that the Germans created these in world war 2 for use as chemical nerve agents (Don are you reading this)?
after the war the chemical companies started using them as pesticides.
In Britian recently they were trying to eliminate the warbel fly, they apply this OS directly on the spine of the animal, much the same as they do here for treating for worms. shortly after this treatment the cattle developed BSE. the author brings up some interestig points (I think) if your interested in this sort of thing, ya ought to look at it.

bubba, since you're a canadian who has worked on international peacekeeping efforts, i'd be interested as to your opinion of general romeo dallaire, the UN commader in Rwanda, that is, if you'd care to share any insights.