Oh My God!

Not even more of this again...

sheesh. Maybe fascism was better?

nah

It is simply impossible for me to believe that people even question whether or not Iraq had WMD's.
Just the fact that Sadaam suffered under sanctions for 12 years and booted the inspectors out of the country is enough proof for me. The inspectors and our troops in the Gulf War I proved that he had WMD's. Does anyone think he would have destroyed them and presented proof.

Sometimes I wonder about people's common sense. IF it walks and talks like a duck, well then QUACK it is a duck.

Its kind of like the OJ trial. The jury wanted a video tape of OJ killing his wife and the Goldman boy.
But with a little time, the naysayers will be proven wrong just like they were about the Iraq Museum of Antiquities.

Yes, why question anything? It is best to just shut up and accept everything our leaders tell us.

Please pass the koolaid.

From the Boston Globe

Bush's deceptions on Iraq intelligence

By Derrick Z. Jackson, 6/6/2003

WITH SUCH empty hands after the battle, President Bush is losing the war for his honor. The primary pretext for his unprecedented first-strike war was that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had the most horrifying arsenal of weapons of mass destruction on earth.

Last summer, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said ''there is no doubt'' and ''there's just no question'' that Hussein had the weapons. Bush turned up the rhetoric in September. ''For the sake of your children's future,'' Bush said, ''we must make sure this madman never has the capacity to hurt us with a nuclear weapon, or to use the stockpiles of anthrax that we know he has, or VX, the biological weapons which he possesses.''

In his fateful 48-hour warning to Saddam to leave Iraq, Bush said, ''Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.''

With about 180 American soldiers sacrificed and thousands of Iraqi soldiers and citizens killed, the unprecedented war is unraveling into a scandal that dwarfs President Clinton's Thong-gate and threatens to surpass the violation of national trust symbolized by Watergate. Bill and Monica was about lying about sex. Watergate was about President Nixon lying about a break-in.

Iraq is about Bush sending Americans to die for what may have been a lie.

Despite 160,000 American and British troops and the world's greatest technology, no weapons of mass destruction have been found. The commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, Lieutenant General James Conway, said whatever intelligence he was given on WMD, ''We were simply wrong.'' Conway said, ''We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there.''

Many current and former intelligence officers are now saying that the White House either ignored intelligence reports that failed to confirm weapons of mass destruction or trumped up skimpy or lame reports. A claim by Bush that Saddam was buying uranium from Africa for nuclear weapons turned out to be a forged document on the letterhead of a minister of foreign affairs in Niger who had been out of office for a decade.

Greg Thielmann, a recently retired State Department analyst who could not believe that Bush would use ''that stupid piece of garbage'' to make his case, told Newsweek, ''There is a lot of sorrow and anger at the way intelligence was misused.''

A Central Command planner told Newsweek that the CIA's information on the sites where weapons of mass destruction were stored was ''crap.'' An intelligence official told US News and World Report that ''the policy decisions weren't matching the reports we were reading every day.'' In a 2002 document, the Defense Intelligence Agency concluded, ''There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons.''

Time quoted a senior military official who helped plan the war in Iraq but quit after seeing the White House exaggerate bad intelligence. Time also quoted an Army intelligence officer who said Rumsfeld ''was deeply, almost pathologically distorting the intelligence.''

US News and World Report detailed how Cheney's staff fed Secretary of State Colin Powell reams of ''evidence'' that could not be confirmed on the eve of Powell's testimony to the United Nations. David Albright, a former Atomic Energy Agency arms inspector, said the White House ''deliberately selected information that would increase the perception that Iraq was a serious threat'' and ''made a decision to turn a blind eye'' to the evidence that ''the large number of deployed chemical weapons the administration said that Iraq had are not there.''

Patrick Lang, a former CIA analyst on Iraq, has said intelligence was ''exploited and abused and bypassed'' by the White House. Vincent Cannistraro, a former head of CIA counter-terrorism operations, said many intelligence officials ''believe it is a scandal.'' Cannistraro said Bush had a ''moral obligation to use the best information available, not just information that fits your preconceived ideas.''

Ignoring that moral obligation may have needlessly wasted thousands of lives and lowered the United States onto the shelf of rogue states we claim to be saving the world from. Before the war, Bush said Saddam used ''denial and deception'' on weapons of mass destruction. Bush must now tell Americans to what level he deceived us.

If Bush cannot shoulder the burden of truth, his disgrace should be one that makes Bill Clinton's lust a footnote in history and Richard Nixon's tapes a petty larceny of democracy. The denial and deception of President Bush ended in debauchery and death.

Reuters is presently headlining a story that notes that Rice and Powell are "defending" their initial discussions of WMDs in Iraq.

It's ludicrous! They're still saying the Knew of the WMDs, when clearly they did not at the time they were discussing it in Jan-Feb of this year. Had they Known at the time, they could have produced just One of the damned things, and saved all that huffing and puffing before the UNSC.

But no -- they had satellite photos and line drawings and "intelligence reports" and everything else under the sun.

Just no WMDs.

They *still* have No WMDs.

Everybody spins; everybody wins.

But things are hotting up nicely on the issue.

Isn't the Boston Globe owned by the New York Times. You know, all the news that's fit to print. Ha Ha.

People are never going to believe it. Maybe we should just give Saddam back his country. Wonder what the Kurds would have to say about that?

Screw off MW, A reporters spin from boston globe isn't "proof" of anything, exept proof of the press trying to create a story.

Create a story? He created the WMD story? Bahaaawaaaha. You crack me up. Do you believe your own b.s. Bubba? I hope not.

Personally, I'd pay a lot more attention to a thoughtful Boston Globe piece than the views of an unemployed Manitoba halfwit. But that's just me.

MW - Where have you been, BOY? MARS? No, let me guess. Couldn't have been that far out. How about - your lips wrapped around a hookah jack! I thought so... Don't let go! I vaguely remember that euphoric feeling, but it too will pass, you dolt.

Pass - You are totally bereft of anything even remotely resembling someone with common sense. Get a firm grip on the Dr's orders for the meds, and don't let go.

Don - Another Pass? You are so lacking in brainpower, that they'd have to let you go before you even started at TacoTime. Don't forget to take your nachocheese with you, and that brown bag with the whine bottle in it.
OH! Don! I almost forgot! Take your hangin' chad with you, please. YOUR GORE BUDDY LOST, Don. Git on over it.

With this fabulous arsenal of crap you folks drag out, it doesn't take much to defeat you all with one eye and one finger!

Devil's Chewtoy - I'm about convinced there is absolutely not one brain between the lot of them, excepting Anthony, who can at least remain unconvinced. The rest of them have decided on their own to be losers.

NOW, boys and girls - let's discuss the freakin' trailers! Any takers? I thought not, you sorry sack of stuff. Discuss them, or forget it!

Notice, Pass, that I did not order you to answer, or shut up, but it was as close as I thought I could go, seein' as how it's still Sunday.

MW - I GOT IT NOW! You been into that ELECTRIC KOOLAID! Sorry. For a minute there I thought you were addicted, but no - terribly wrong. You're only hallucinating.

hmmmm folks if you think Bush and co. are lying about Iraq's WMDs than you should accuse those who made the same claims, WJ Clinton and the UN. The same people that claimed we where rushing to war and not giving inspections a chance to work should consider that we still don't control the entire country and haven't turned over all the rocks. Give inspections a chance to work, don't rush to judgement.

Not so fast Dave, I'll take you up on any of your weak arguments, though I know that you prefer to call people names and avoid reasoned argument wherever possible.

Read the story below. Seems the jury is still out on the "trailers of mass destruction". Even if they were weapons labs, most of the pro-war camp concedes that they are, standing alone, a pretty thin excuse for war and posed no threat to the U.S.

I know you are no fan of the Guardian, but watch this issue the next little while, and I predict that a lot more doubt will be cast on the true purpose for these trailers. Here's the story:

Blow to Blair over 'mobile labs'

Saddam's trucks were for balloons, not germs

Peter Beaumont and Antony Barnett
Sunday June 8, 2003
The Observer

Tony Blair faces a fresh crisis over Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, as evidence emerges that two vehicles that he has repeatedly claimed to be Iraqi mobile biological warfare production units are nothing of the sort.

The intelligence agency MI6, British defence officers and technical experts from the Porton Down microbiological research establishment have been ordered to conduct an urgent review of the mobile facilities, following US analysis which casts serious doubt on whether they really are germ labs.

The British review comes amid widespread doubts expressed by scientists on both sides of the Atlantic that the trucks could have been used to make biological weapons.

Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987.

The British review follows access by UK officials to the vehicles which were discovered by US troops in April and May.

'We are being very careful now not to jump to any conclusions about these vehicles,' said one source familiar with the investigation. 'On the basis of intelligence we do believe that mobile labs do exist. What is not certain is that these vehicles are actually them so we are being careful not to jump the gun.'

The claim, however, that the two vehicles are mobile germ labs has been repeated frequently by both Blair and President George Bush in recent days in support of claims that they prove the existence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

During his whistle stop tour of the Gulf, Europe and Russia, Blair repeatedly briefed journalists that the trailers were germ production labs which proved that Iraq had WMD.

But chemical weapons experts, engineers, chemists and military systems experts contacted by The Observer over the past week, say the layout and equipment found on the trailers is entirely inconsistent with the vehicles being mobile labs. Both US Secretary of State Colin Powell, when he addressed the UN Security Council prior to the war, and the British Government alleged that Saddam had such labs.

A separate investigation published by the New York Times yesterday discloses that the trailers have now been investigated by three different teams of Western experts, with the third and most senior group of analysts apparently divided sharply over their function.

'I have no great confidence that it's a fermenter,' a senior analyst said of a tank supposed to be capable of multiplying seed germs into lethal swarms. The government's public report, he said, 'was a rushed job and looks political'. The analyst had not seen the trailers, but reviewed evidence from them.

Another intelligence expert who has seen the trailers told the US paper: 'Everyone has wanted to find the "smoking gun" so much that they may have wanted to have reached this conclusion. I am very upset with the process.'

Questions over the claimed purpose of trailer for making biological weapons include:

· The lack of any trace of pathogens found in the fermentation tanks. According to experts, when weapons inspectors checked tanks in the mid-Nineties that had been scoured to disguise their real use, traces of pathogens were still detectable.

· The use of canvas sides on vehicles where technicians would be working with dangerous germ cultures.

· A shortage of pumps required to create vacuum conditions required for working with germ cultures and other processes usually associated with making biological weapons.

· The lack of an autoclave for steam sterilisation, normally a prerequisite for any kind of biological production. Its lack of availability between production runs would threaten to let in germ contaminants, resulting in failed weapons.

· The lack of any easy way for technicians to remove germ fluids from the processing tank.

One of those expressing severe doubts about the alleged mobile germ labs is Professor Harry Smith, who chairs the Royal Society's working party on biological weapons.

He told The Observer 'I am concerned about the canvas sides. Ideally, you would want airtight facilities for making something like anthrax. Not only that, it is a very resistant organism and even if the Iraqis cleaned the equipment, I would still expect to find some trace of it.'

His view is shared by the working group of the Federation of American Scientists and by the CIA, which states: 'Senior Iraqi officials of the al-Kindi Research, Testing, Development, and Engineering facility in Mosul were shown pictures of the mobile production trailers, and they claimed that the trailers were used to chemically produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.'

Artillery balloons are essentially balloons that are sent up into the atmosphere and relay information on wind direction and speed allowing more accurate artillery fire. Crucially, these systems need to be mobile.

The Observer has discovered that not only did the Iraq military have such a system at one time, but that it was actually sold to them by the British. In 1987 Marconi, now known as AMS, sold the Iraqi army an Artillery Meteorological System or Amets for short.

Additional reporting by Solomon Hughes

LMAO, eat pig shit MW, Or, just buy that fine product that hormel makes from pig waste, you know, that sunday dinner treat yo'mamma always gives you, spam!

Hey MW, did it ever cross your mind that to make hydrogen, you don't use a fermenter?
Do you even know how Hydrogen is made?

If you used a fermentor to make a gass, what kind of gass would be made? (hint...shake your beer)
what a dumb dickweed you are.

billhedrick - Thanks for the good words, BUT - Don and trollery will have no rational human bein' here, espousing anything but doom and gloom. Alas and alack, foresooth in yonder window breaks, A view of Don's friend Pass and his wonderful derriere, performing a solo rendition of 'How High the Moon'. He's waiting for the 'experts', 'analysts' and 'formers' (note Bubba, I said nothing about FARMERS) to say something, just about any freakin' thing, that would cast his argument in even the barest glow of reason. Not gonna happen today folks, UNLESS you want me to drag out some of the big guns again. Right, Don? Like, maybe, we can't trust ANYONE? Not even YOU?

Hint#2
is co2 a light gas or heavy gas?
What kind of gas is needed to float weather ballons?
If floating weather balloms, would it be a smart idea to use hydrogen, which is flamable, or helium, which is not?
remember the zepplin that caught fire?

Dumbass, they use helium in weather balloons
Hydrogen would blow up

Bubba,

It pains me that I have to explain everything to you.

Pay attention now, the skeptics are saying it's not a "fermenter". Therefore, it is more likely that it was used for the production of balloons, they argue.

Next.

MW - You have got to be borderline somethin', boy... You know, this stuff about the hydrogen is so freakin' stupid, it isn't even worth replyin' to, and I'm danglin' my participle way out on the edge! You are just plain STUPID, MW. Get OFF the hookah jack right now, and go back to the koolaid. That story, run up the pole by the stupid Iraqis, was laughed at by the 'experts'. You buy hydrogen by the tank, you dolt, you don''t spend a million Dinars so you can do it up right at some remote site! GEEESH. YOU DID COME FROM MARS.

Wrong again, Dave

http://www.novalynx.com/400-balloons.html

Man, you dolts are no challenge at all.

Next!

BTW MW - I got the MW figured out. It stands for MotoWingnut. The moto part comes in about the time you post so much useless 'stuff' that we are somehow bound to read. Just post the link - if we want to read it, we'll take the hint. useless stuff. Not even worth cappin', Cap'n.

I was waiting to say that, the so called anylist that said the fermenting tank could be used to make hydrogen for "weather ballons" Some anylist!!
Fermentation produces co2.
you need gobbs of electicity and water to make hydrogen.
hydrogen isn't used in weather ballons because of static electicity in the atmosphere, especially when your putting them up in storm clouds.

Why would saddam be developing "mobile weather ballon labs, when children are starving.
why did the UN aprove this project?

Don/PtG/Mw,
try rational thinking if it's at all a capability you possess

Here are two pertinent links.
Ex - Official: Evidence Distorted for War
The Bush administration distorted intelligence and presented conjecture as evidence to justify a U.S. invasion of Iraq, according to a retired intelligence official who served during the months before the war.

``What disturbs me deeply is what I think are the disingenuous statements made from the very top about what the intelligence did say,'' said Greg Thielmann, who retired last September. ``The area of distortion was greatest in the nuclear field.''

Spy report saw no proof of Iraq arms - '02 assessment fuels doubt on prewar claims
APNews 6/7/2003 - WASHINGTON -- The Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's main spy unit, stated in a report last fall that there was ''no definitive, reliable information'' that Iraq was producing or stockpiling chemical or biological weapons, casting the most serious doubts yet on the Bush administration's prewar contentions that Saddam Hussein was operating a widespread gas and germ warfare program.

Bubba - Sorry. 'rational thinking' was NEVER on their dancecard.

MW,
it pains me to wake up your decaying brain.

IF, and I repeat IF, it was anything but a fermentor, and it was used for producing "hydrogen", it would have 2 electrodes running through it, a colector, a water inlet, and a big fucking power supply to create hydrogen, which, in a tiny trailer like that, would take about a month to launch one weather balloon.

go bang your head against the wall, knock some sense into yourself

Go bang

Anthony - I'd LOVE to follow up on that little line, but right now I have my hands full with MotoWingnut. He doesn't know gas from his ass grows in a bag, and that GasX relieves the sinkin' bloated feelin' he gets when he's had too much koolaid. Or Hookah emissions. Not sure which, yet. Dr. Bubba's doin' the diagnosis.

Why do you two keep insisting that they don't use hydrogen in weather balloons. Do you just make it up as you go along?

Okay, here is a second site that disproves your b.s. pronouncements:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/elp/kids/balloon.html

Who is 'rational', now?

Anthony,
Sounds like Dr. Bubba decided the guy needed MAJOR surgery. Can you hold that thought for a bit? I have to ASSist.

However MW, I have 8,000 pigs that make alot of shit, and the by- product is ammonia, so stick your head in the shit tank, take a deep wiff, maybe that will clear your head

MotoWingNUT ! You are late for chemistry class! How you ever goin' to PASS if you don't got no clASS? LMAO.
Give him some ether, Dr. Bubba. He's comin' DOWN.

For fuck sakes, a kids site for hydrogen, and how to make a ballon float?
LMAO
why don't you try a better site, like how things work,
or, how WEATHER BALLONS WORK, you dumb fuck

Pretty PIcture there, MW. You are really special. Where the hell is the trailer? LMAO.

You two are back to your old tactics, I see. When confronted by the facts, you resort to your lame-ass schoolyard name calling.

Okay Bubba,

If I was a semiliterate Manitoba pig farmer (or should I say, employee of a Manitoba pig farmer), I'd have a chip on my shoulder too.

Here's one for you:

Why is it so windy in Saskatchewan?

Becaus Alberta sucks and Manitoba blows.

You better get down to the Liqour mart before they close.

want to know what I did when I was a kid MV? we used to fill ballons with hydrogen in science class, tie a good string to it, about an inch hanging, Tied to a broken firecracker that was tapped to the balloon. then we'd let it go, the string burned, you have that glowing string, we called a fire cracker ingniter, when it reach the powder in the broken fire cracker the flame shot out, burning the ballon, ingniting the gas, and we made little sonic booms that way.

In short, that is why they don't use hydrogen in weather ballons, the static electricity in the atmosphere gathers on the balloon, and ignites the gas.

MW - Did you read what I said about an hour ago? The 'experts' laughed at the Iraqi cover story, you dolt! The Iraqis were stupid enough to throw aluminum pellets in the tank, and tell them the equipment was used for building hydrogen. As Dr. Bubba has cleared stated, the equipment was NOT built to create Hydrogen, for the very same freakin' reasons that the experts laughed at the Iraqi cover story! Now dig up something to the contrary, or find a female MotoWingnut and mate. You are probably the last of your kind.

And let me guess, Bubba, you were standing to close one day, which explains your head injury.

And let me guess, Bubba, you were standing to close one day, which explains your head injury.

Dave:
I think you already saw both links. I just posted them here for anyone who may have missed them.

make that "too" close. Cripes, now I'm spelling like Bubba!

MW ! Or, should I say, DONDANPASSTHEGAS!

You are a slippery little booger, aren't you? You, my friend, wouldn't know stuff about stuff from the getgo, but if you put a piece of floss on a pencil and put it in your left ear, it would pass right on through! Don't try that trick without adult supervision, however. You smell funny, MW. You been on that there hookah agin'?

Gee, I always thought Saskachewan was windy because it is a flat praire, with no trees to stop the wind, not to mention it's 2300 feet above sea level.

So where are you from, MV, toronna? LMAO
where they call the army in when they get 2 inches of snow? Land of the liberals? LMAO
Where Toronto has to by electricity for Manitoba because the men there can't satify the women, so they plug in too many vibrators at once?=brown outs?
Never forget, MW, the wealth of Canada is in the west, the east is just a leach we can well do without

MW - Read it and weep. And, BTW, this IS the story that Don, and Pass the Gas will not touch.

http://www.command-post.org/archives/007311.html

Someone please explain this one to me.

Weather balloons, which are made of latex or synthetic rubber (neoprene), are filled with either hydrogen or helium.

From the noaa site.

oops
"buy" and from"

they use helium because of the expansion properties.
Hydrogen was used about 50 years ago till they figured out why they kept blowing up

Bubba
So maybe the Iraqi didn't figure that out yet? :)

Really, it doesn't matter, because those trailers wern't made for making hydrogen either

So all these 'expert' analyst from the US and UK don't what you guys know?

Also, if they were even stupid enough to waste so much money and time just to make a gas for "balloons, why would it have been scrubbed down and sterilized?
Doesn't make sense, does it.

So all these 'expert' analyst from the US and UK who are disagreeing with the official analysis don't know what you guys know?

plus, if you were making hydrogen,an explosive gas, you'd have anti static devices all over the place, and a big "NO SMOKING" with 100 feet plastered all over the rig.

Did everyone get that? That's as close as Bubba gets to admitting he's wrong...he just says "it doesn't matter".

BTW, wrong again on the Toronto thing, Bubba. I'm Saskatchewan born and bred. You should know what happens when you ass/u/me.

As I said before, what qualifies them as "analysts"?

I'm an analyst as well.
tne spin article said they have never seen the trailers, just reviewed written evidence from it.

I know how hydrogen is made, plant near by, I know how hellium is made.

I know if you toss aluminiun pelltets in a tank, pour acid on them to make chemical hydrogen, you produce ammonium sulfate, which will kill you, and isn't needed, and can't be separated from the hydrogen. NOT weather ballon gas, thats for sure.

Plus, those trailers would reveil if that was done, as it's very corrosive.

This is from the national weather service. It is current info on weather balloons.

Radiosonde / Weather Balloon Observations

Radiosonde balloons are inflated with either helium or hydrogen gases and are usually launched in an open field, generally at an airport where obstructions are at a minimum. When completely inflated, the balloon reaches about 8 to 10 feet in height.

Good for you, MV, because I have alot of relatives in SK, gimme your adress, and I'm sure I can arrange a few freinds to drop by for a "visit"

Since there doesn't seem to be any residue found in these units, they say they were sterile, I can't even speculate that they may be portable RDX labs, which would be used for making high explosives, of the type hommicide bombers would use, It seems improbable because they wouldn't be kept as clean for making that stuff

Buuba said "As I said before, what qualifies them as 'analysts?'"

I don't think the intelligence agencies are going to use anyone who isn't an expert on these matters. These issue is of the utmost concern to the west.

The NY Times called the analyst EXPERTS.

And remember the earlier quote from the "expert" Bubba:

"Dumbass, they use helium in weather balloons
Hydrogen would blow up"

Who is a dumbass now?

Whats reveil ?

Bubba,

Is that a threat, you inbred cracker?

"The NY Times called the analyst EXPERTS."

golly, didn't they just fire the editor, that journalist for making up stories?

do you really believe just because the new york times says they are "experts" that they are indeed experts? LMAO

"I'm an expert, and I tell you, the tires on all cars are square, not round. You've been believing false info from goodyear all these years."

Hydrogen is seldom used, look up why and under what reason they would use hydrogen. geez, what am I your school teacher?

I didn't read a threat into that, did you?

what kind of "expert" draws a conclusion without physically looking at the evidence? As the article clearly says "he has not seen these trailers, he's just looking at the given word, data, which probably isn't even the stuff given by the pentagon.
"expert analyst" may ass. It's a slam from liberal media

what kind of "expert" draws a conclusion without physically looking at the evidence? As the article clearly says "he has not seen these trailers, he's just looking at the given word, data, which probably isn't even the stuff given by the pentagon.
"expert analyst" my ass. It's a slam from liberal media

Bubba said "do you really believe just because the new york times says they are "experts" that they are indeed experts?

You may be right. But once again, it makes absolutely no sense to bring out the 'scrubs' when the credibility of the UK and US governments are on the line.

//Hydrogen is seldom used, look up why and under what reason they would use hydrogen. geez, what am I your school teacher?//

Willis Island Meteorological station - they use hydrogen in their balloons.

Below you can see a) the balloon being filled with hydrogen gas. The Hydrogen gas is very flammable and if the balloon bursts and causes a spark then an explosion will take place, hence the protective gear - flash Jacket, Goggles and Gloves and anti static footwear, which helps to keep you earthed to the ground which in turn minimises any static electricity produced which could produce a spark and hence an explosion.

Ok, now find out why they would use such a balloon.

I'm glad you clearly stated the use of anti static equipment, grounding devices, etc. All things NOT present on that trailer, neither of them.

Now, find out why Hydrogen is used in SPECIAL cases.

From a University of western Australia site:

Weather Balloons

Although extremely flammable, Hydrogen gas is used in the balloons sent aloft in the Australian Upper Air Program. The reason for this is two fold, firstly the isolation of some of the weather stations in Australia made the delivery of gas cylinders difficult whereas Hydrogen could easily be "brewed" on station and secondly, although safer to use, the cost of Helium was deemed to be too prohibitive in such a large program.

Getting through to you yet, Bubba?

Then find out if Iraq even had such a program.

They didn't

Bubba

For clarity. One analyst didn't see the trailers. A whole group of 'more senior analyst' so the trailers and many of them disagreed with the initial assestment.

And in many cases an expert can make an analysis based on reports. I don't know if it applies in this case.
Some Analysts of Iraq Trailers Reject Germ Use

From the UK side.

Firstly, the Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee (the "spooks" committee that briefs the UK Cabinet on intelligence matters) has confirmed that his Committee stands by the briefings on WMD's they gave to Blair and the UK Government, before the conflict started.

Secondly, many years after the UK Government entered into the Northern Ireland Peace Agreement, UK forces and the local police are still unable to locate significant IRA arms caches in the MINISCULE territory of Northern Ireland.

Mark Steyn has an excellent piece on WMDs in today's Sunday Telegraph : Go to the ST Opinion section at this site :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk

Now boys, calm down. Whats all this yelling about anyway? Why are you fighting over technicalities(sp)? If you fight their way, they'll just pull something else out of their hat.

Let me pose to you this question. HOW IMPORTANT ARE WMD? How important are they compared to all the good caused by the war. All the lives saved, all the people freed. Anything we set-up isn't going to be nearly as bad as what the Iraqi's went through. So what if bush used them for a means to and end? Does it really matter that much? And if so, why?

Now, about finding weapons. Its just like with the museum, everyone's grabbing at straws. They want to find something, anything, to validate their arguments. Now, how about we sit down a bit and practice some patience. The truth will come in time.

For clarity. One analyst didn't see the trailers. A whole group of 'more senior analyst' SAW the trailers and many of them disagreed with the initial assestment.

seems if Australia, a country that can AFFORD to do upper atmosphere studies, and has a program for it, uses hydrogen because helium is to expensive to transport to remote locations.
Show me any reason, or circumstance where Iraq would have that concern.
under embargo, it wasn't allowed.
tell my why saddam would need to have a science program painted military green to study upper atmospheric conditions.
he never had one.

Now, find out how Austrailia generates hydrogen.

NookOfNorth
// How important are they compared to all the good caused by the war. //

Someone obviously thinks its important. You might want to tell that to the UK and the US administrations, congress, and the rest of the world.

The issue is credibility. We said they were there and we knew where to find them. We nned to find them. And if we don't the next time we decide we need to move against another country will they believe us. Or will they accuse of crying WOLFowitz.

Oh I get it.
Saddam needed to know how far his toxic gasses would travel if he tried gass Isreal from within Iraq.
That makes sense.
He would need to know how far the trade winds would carry it

According to the Guardian article they used the balloons to check atmospheric conditions to help set the target on their weapons. In fact the British sold them a unit in the late 1980's.

This brings us to another question Anthony, If saddam was just using "hydrogen balloons" for wind drift info, who was he attacking? nobody within his country, and, the UN said he wasn't allowed to have missiles that would reach 113 miles into the upper stratosphere. which is where hydrogen balloons are typicly used, Hmmm.

So now you have 2 arguments to solve.

Robert Kagan today, in the Washington Post. Money quote:

Go back and take a look at the report Hans Blix delivered to the U.N. Security Council on Jan. 27. On the question of Iraq's stocks of anthrax, Blix reported "no convincing evidence" that they were ever destroyed. But there was "strong evidence" that Iraq produced more anthrax than it had admitted "and that at least some of this was retained." Blix also reported that Iraq possessed 650 kilograms of "bacterial growth media," enough "to produce . . . 5,000 litres of concentrated anthrax." Cirincione concluded that "it is likely that Iraq retains stockpiles of anthrax, botulinum toxin and aflatoxin."

On the question of VX, Blix reported that his inspections team had information that conflicted with Iraqi accounts. The Iraqis claimed that they had produced VX only as part of a pilot program but that the quality was poor and the agent was never "weaponized." But according to Blix, the inspections team discovered Iraqi documents that showed the quality of the VX to be better than declared. The team also uncovered "indications that the agent" had been "weaponized." According to Cirincione's August 2002 report, "it is widely believed that significant quantities of chemical agents and precursors remain stored in secret depots" and that there were also "thousands of possible chemical munitions still unaccounted for." Blix reported there were 6,500 "chemical bombs" that Iraq admitted producing but whose whereabouts were unknown. Blix's team calculated the amount of chemical agent in those bombs at 1,000 tons. As Blix reported to the Security Council, "in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26671-2003Jun6.html

Is Hans Blix in on the consipracy too? Npot to mention Al Gore and William Jefferson Clinton?

Well Nook it does matter,

War is always risky, many lives are put at risk by it. It's not something that can be justified after the fact. If the American, British and Australian people wanted to go to war to liberate the Iraqis, fine. I don't think they would have made that choice, but we'll never know. And an invasion to liberate them would still have been contrary to international law, which rightly or wrongly generally doesn't allow foreign states to take it upon themselves to replace the governments of other states.

But the world should not have been sold a bill of goods about a hyped-up threat posed by these non-existent WMDs. One reason this justification is so dangerous is that now India can use it to ijustify attacking Pakistan, and vice versa. Same goes for North Korea, Kazakhstan, and many other milataristic states.

It is also dangerous for the US to lose its credibility internationally for other reasons. It will not be believed the next time a real threat comes along.

For a more comprehensive explanation of the harm done by the WMD lie read this article:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

So MV, was Hans Blix helping Bush with the lying?

Makes you wonder where all the stuff saddam admitted he had is....
The turnip group fails to see that aspect.
There is alot of stuff missing

No G H,

I don't think that Blix is in a conspiracy with Bush.

But I thought Blix was incompetent. Isn't that what you have always said? So let me get this straight he's competent when he agrees with you, but when he doesn't he's a fool?

And why was he incompetent, because he couldn't find WMDs? What does that say about the US, who has the advantage of controlling the entire country?

And if you agreed with Blix, why didn't you give him more time?

http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/2.html

(its a combined link of Helium & hydrogen facts)

Just read, Hydrogen has only 1/4 of the weight of Helium so the lifting power is far higher, and it cost almost nothing, they didn't even mentioned the cost. Helium is quite expensive, of course it's used for blimps for safety purposes.
Weather ballons are only filled to a small degree, because otherwise the balloon would burst very soon in higher air because of gas expansion and declining Air pressure.
Btw Hydrogen gas is not very dangerous, only the mix of oxygen and hydrogen is explosive. It's very common to use hydrogen in unmanned balloons because it's far cheaper, especially if you abandon these balloons like weatherballoons usually are..

http://lautaro.fb10.tu-berlin.de/intseit2/PosterBiohydrogen2002.pdf

That's a study how to build a H2 producing biolab. It's a very modern way to produce H2 on a biological way, wich is better for the envoirment as already mentioned, no agressive chemicals needed.

Most of you people know almost nothing, but the little you know you think it's the world wisdom and all other people are sucker.

Most of you are wrong, in behaviour and in the hatred you have against reasonable founded opinions of other.

For the question if these labs were used to produce H2 or warfare germs, i don't know. But did you have Powell heard saying it has been used or is capable to produce weapon grade Biological germs? It's mentioned as an Biolab, with unknown purpose i would like to add. Dosen't look high tech and isn't high tech. So why should it be able to produce high tech Bio weapons. From an fermentor to a useable Bio weapon it's a long way to go, and i'm confident these trucks are not capable to do this. Rolling scrap, nothing more.

But as usual i'm sure this nobody want to know here, you want to believe, and even facts won't make you shaky.

You miss the point boy. I asked YOU how important they are. Not the UN. Not th world, you. If they found them, would you then bow and accept it, or would you find something else. You see, your perspective is wrong. You've made your stance, and are trying to find facts to back it up. Instead, try using the facts to find your stance.

You see MV, we listed many reasons for going to war. WMD was one of them. The point isn't that we went to war, it isn't that we won. Its about what happens to the Iraqi people in the future. That and what will come of the world if Iraq becomes a working democracy.

Now, as for the rest. Yes, it is important that we find them. Do they exist? probably. Will we find them? probably. Give it time. Iraq's a big place... you can hide it anywhere. We don't even control the whole country yet. Read my last paragraph of the post. Think before you post.

Oh, and I totally agree. Using that argument was dangerous. Your right, India could use it. However, wars start for lots of reasons. In the end history doesn't remember the why, just the what.

Here was the problem, MW; Blix wasn't aggressive enough. Blix was able to find very little--what he did manage to find was more than enough to confirm Saddam's noncompliance.. But you misunderstand Blix's mission. Blix was not there to uncover anything new.

Blix was there only to find what had previously been known to exist when Saddam kicked out Butler's team in 1998.

If Saddam was keeping that from happening, what was the point of the inspections?

In any case, Saddam's behavior was NOT immediate complete and unconditional compliance as demanded by 1441. Care to argue that Saddam was open and forthcoming with inspectors?

The inspections were not a game. The were to VERIFY, not ENFORCE, Saddam's compliance.

He did not comply. Thus we ended the inspections.

No contradictions in my position, sorry.

The difference is, MV, is Blix had from 1991-1998, at which time he was "expelled", and from sept. to Feb.
The US has only had 8 weeks or so thus far

*clapping hands* Good job Nobodywantstoknow. Good research. Oh, I agree with you BTW. Don't think the mobile's were labs for germs. If they were, they'd probably have destroyed them... not just abandoned them.

Quoting John Dean's piece, MW?

Uh, have you bothered to read it critically? Written over a day after the Guardian's Wolfowitz story was withdrawn, yet he still quotes the false tale as if it's gospel (along with the other deliberately misrepresented Wolfowitz quotes).

Dean's just stringing cliches together. He jumped the shark after the Earl Butz joke in '76.

The fact is the *consensus* of all intelligence agencies, including ones from nations that were against the war, was that Iraq had retained WMDs and WMD production capability. Were they *all* in on the conspiracy? Even the French?

As for the "hydrogen" production, yes, you're right, hydrogen can be used in balloons in some situations. But a trailer like that is incapable of producing enough hydrogen in a reasonable enough time to be used for anything beyond explosive balloons for Uday's birthday parties.

No, Bubba, Blix and UNMOVIC operated from 1998 - 2003 (really only 2003, UNMOVIC wasn't allowed in before we threatened invasion).

Richard Butler headed UNSCOM from 1991 - 1998, and was kicked out when he turned up Saddam's VX.

>> But I thought Blix was incompetent. Isn't that what you have always said?

Only eight weeks Bubba?

"It was a surprise to me then -- it remains a surprise to me now -- that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites," he told reporters at the Pentagon.

"Believe me, it's not for lack of trying," he added. "We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."

Marine Lt. Gen. James Conway

William Safire, the only one of the whole crowd at the New York Times I really have any respect for as an honest, reality oriented columnist, wrote a column in the July 2nd edition called, "You Lied To Us" which pretty much sums up the stupidity of the antiwar(antifreedom?) posse.
As he points out, the results of the war infinitely outweigh the whole "Where's the WMD?" argument.
It would be nice if these pissant, "we really have nothing to say, but we won't give up our pitiful little attempt at a toehold on some excuse or other to discredit Bush" types would move on to something else, like maybe trying to get Sharpton into the White House or whatever it is that floats their boat.

nobodywants to know

any idiot can take a duracell battery and "make hydrogen"
however, quantity is needed to make a high alt. balloon.
cheapest and simplest way is electrical.
Those trailers don't fit the bill, even remotely.

all other uses for hydrogen are listed above.
Iraq didn't have a upper stratosphere program, and not a painted millitary green one at that.

low weather balloons are usually teathered, and are filled with helium.

All that aside, saddam wasn't the kind of person to really give a damn about crop spraying, local weather forcasting, etc.
quit defending the demon

what are you saying "we" for MV? I thought you were from mellville SK, population 126

MW, please respond to the point I made, or quit wasting our time.

Was Blix, or was he not, in on the "conspiracy"?

If he was, plese give evidence. If he was not, then you have to admit that EVERYBODY who was in a position to know thought Iraq had WMD--and your case against the Administration falls apart.

Mellville, Now "we" know what MV stands for.

Them they and coalition is what you should say, MV, because WE canadians weren't there, thanks to our dumb ass Proime minister, but had HE have given the go ahead, I would have been there but not YOU.

I wasn't aware he had a case at all. Just some kid tooting his horn.

CRAP. I'm glad I took a nap. Harken back to days of yesteryear. Better yet, gaze into my 'past' machine. Powell stands in front of the UN with diagrams of a MOBILE WMD Lab, and lo! There they are - three of them together, some equipment in one, some in another, more in a third. Remember folks? Good. Anyone care to quess at the date stamped into the equipment behind the current on trailer number 1? 2002 you say, PSHAW! That wouldn't be last year would it? Leave the trailers. Do not look back. They will haunt your sorry asses until the end of time, or given the space age we live in and your desire for IG,(Instant Grats) all of about the time it takes for someone else to refute the refutations of someone else, who as we speak is thinking of retracting his retraction. Live with it, folks. Done deal. Surgery is over, the cancer has been removed. We might have to use chemotherapy a time or two, but the patient is on the mend. AND. Remember the 'P' word I been usin' for about a month and a half now - PATIENCE.

Dave Dube, you may be interested to know that a time machine is theoretically possible. Theory also tells us that it is practically useless (at least this particular one I am thinking of is useless, some bright lad may think of a useful one, I suppose).

LoL@dave

LoL.

Gabe,

Once again, no, Blix was not "in on the conspiracy". He was it seems, at times cowed by Bush's "Either you are for us or you are against us" bully tactics. As were other states, who were trying not to piss off the world's only superpower.

But in the end Blix, France, Germany, New Zealand, Canada, Scotland, Ireland, and the majority people around the world wanted more time to determine the true extent of the "threat" posed by Iraq.

And for most, the evidence just wasn't there.

I'm just waiting for MV from Mellville Sk. to make another post. Tease me for being a farmer from Manitoba will he?
I've driven by his little village many times. Blink and you miss it.
one gas station, and you are either a grain farmer, work for the rail, or the son of the owner of the general store/gastion .
Tell me MV, are the grass hoppers as bad as they were last summer? LMAO

don't say CANADA was against it, just that nut Creitien was, because he was sucking on chirac, and misses old bill (or his wife does)
the majority of Canada was and still is in support of the USA

Oh really, MV? COWED BY BUSH? Blix was finding evidence of WMD programs in Iraq because he was COWED BY BUSH?

Now you are just making shit up.

Yeah, the whole world just WENT ALONG WITH IT.

SO WHY AREN'T THEY GOING ALONG WITH IT NOW, YOU DIPSHIT?

Have you two neurons to rub together? Your posts make me doubt it.

Blubbar,

It's MW, not MV, numbnuts. And nobody here is interested in your description of little old Melonville.

But tell us more about how hydrogen can't be used in weather balloons, brainiac.

On the question of VX, Blix reported that his inspections team had information that conflicted with Iraqi accounts. The Iraqis claimed that they had produced VX only as part of a pilot program but that the quality was poor and the agent was never "weaponized." But according to Blix, the inspections team discovered Iraqi documents that showed the quality of the VX to be better than declared. The team also uncovered "indications that the agent" had been "weaponized." According to Cirincione's August 2002 report, "it is widely believed that significant quantities of chemical agents and precursors remain stored in secret depots" and that there were also "thousands of possible chemical munitions still unaccounted for." Blix reported there were 6,500 "chemical bombs" that Iraq admitted producing but whose whereabouts were unknown. Blix's team calculated the amount of chemical agent in those bombs at 1,000 tons. As Blix reported to the Security Council, "in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for."

In addition, Blix handed a handwritten note to an previously unknown UN diplomat, known to this reporter only as MW. MW has revealed the contents of this note: "I am only giving this evidence against Iraq because I am COWED BY BUSH. Please help! Our Swedish weapons are no match for Bush's puny intellect!"

Hey, praire rat, I just told you, so did Anthony, they are used for upper stratosphere study, not weather Balloons.
go back, read everything all over again, then, go away, maybe you can go fill up your daddys car with gas, drive for 100 miles till you find a tree you can go piss on.
woodtick

Look I will admit that I detested Clinton as much as a lot of you seem to detest George Bush BUT they are completely different people with completely different personalities.

Bill Clinton has demonstrated throughout his life that he will push things to the edge and do whatever he wants and let the chips fall where they may. There is no evidence that George Bush is like that.

SO what historical behavior would lead anyone to believe that George Bush thought he could lie to this magnitude without being exposed? None.
Whether you love him or hate him, George Bush is not a complete idiot and you would have to be a complete idiot to start military action on the basis of lies. He would risk his own 2nd term, he would risk his legacy and also risk the governments of those supporting him like Tony Blair. For this military action to have been based on total fabrication, it would involved complicity of too many people - and people who do not support George Bush like Bill Clnton, the UN, etc., etc.
And please do not expect me to accept the opinion of one reporter as fact. A Reporter for the Boston Globe does not have access to the same material that George Bush would have.

Colin Powell has never been known as a party politician. You think he would risk his hard earned reputation for lies. You think that Colin Powell would send American soldiers into harm's way when he spent his entire life trying to save soldier's lives. Get real. Your dislike for these people have push you over the edge into illogic.

There are many possible reasons why the WMD's have not been found to date. You put unrealistic expectations on people and then use that to justify vile accusations about them.

Lots of politicians are so low that they would send soldiers into battle to further their own political ambitions. But its going to be a cold day in Hell before you are going to convince me that Colin Powell would be a party to that.

Colin Powell was COWED BY BUSH. Bill Clinton was COWED BY BUSH. Al Gore was COWED BY BUSH.

This is why they believed in Iraq's WMD and made public statements saying so.

COWED BY BUSH.

Tatto it on your forehead, MW.

MW - Your half-life in any argument is about 10 seconds. Just because you know where Bubba's from, and you happen to be North of the 48th somewhere really mysterious, does that make you a freakin' expert, 'eh'? Keep to your shedual - you're about two inches shy of the oilpan, dipstick.

When Bush cowed all these people into believing in Iraq's WMD, did he use an actual cow? I mean, he is from Texas.

I never was COWED BY BUSH. I am a Pliable Gentile Stooge First Class in the International Zionist Conspiracy, so I needed no cowing.

ALL RIGHT CLASS! Who gets to wear the DunceHat? MW? Allllrightythen. MW - you get the hat. Decoratin' it is now your task. We have some camo over here. Want to wear some camo? OOOOOOH. SPACIAL. You look really SPACIAL, MW. Sit down. Listen. Watch. Be silent. You may learn somethin'.

Choose sides, Bush tells allies
Critics warn that U.S. risks losing strategic alliances

By Howard Witt
Tribune senior correspondent
Published March 9, 2003

NEW YORK -- With a final United Nations showdown over Iraq just days away, President Bush is demanding not only that Baghdad disarm or face war, but that the world make what he sees as a clear choice: Side with him or with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

Insistent that Iraq's suspected weapons of mass destruction pose a dire threat to America, Bush is bringing extraordinary pressure to bear against each member on the UN Security Council before this week's vote, diplomats say.

Critics warn that by forcing the world to choose sides, Bush is risking deep and lasting schisms, both in Washington's traditional strategic alliances, such as those with Europe and NATO, and in newer ties with Muslim states formed to wage the war on terrorism.

"We have begun to dismantle the largest and most effective web of international relationships the world has ever known," John Kiesling, a career State Department officer who resigned his post at the U.S. Embassy in Athens over the administration's Iraq policy, wrote Secretary of State Colin Powell last month. "Our current course will bring instability and danger, not security."

The White House could demand a Security Council vote as soon as Tuesday on its draft resolution, co-sponsored by Britain and Spain, that would gives Iraq until March 17 to disarm itself of weapons of mass destruction or face an assault by more than a quarter-million U.S. and British troops.

In a sign of how imminent that assault may be, UN military observers began withdrawing civilian staff Saturday from posts along the Iraq-Kuwait border. The move came as hired contractors cut seven gates wide enough to accommodate tanks in the fence that U.S. forces would have to cross if they invade Iraq from the south.

Undeterred by the prospect of losing the UN vote, and unmoved by fresh warnings from France and Russia that either may veto the resolution, Bush said at a news conference Thursday that he was determined to force each nation to "show their cards, let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam."

The president kept up the pressure in his weekly radio address Saturday, dismissing recent signs of Iraqi cooperation with UN weapons inspectors as a "shell game" by a regime that has refused to fully and voluntarily surrender its suspected chemical, biological and nuclear weapons materials.

"People of goodwill must also recognize that allowing a dangerous dictator to defy the world and build an arsenal for conquest and mass murder is not peace at all; it is pretense," Bush said, as several thousand women dressed in pink gathered outside the White House to protest the apparently looming war.

"The cause of peace will be advanced only when the terrorists lose a wealthy patron and protector," he added, "and when the dictator is fully and finally disarmed."

A call for more inspections

Yet the danger posed by Hussein does not appear so clear-cut to the many nations arguing that inspectors should be given more time to disarm Iraq before resorting to war.

"If Saddam Hussein is one of the worst tyrants the world's ever known, he's a war criminal, he's despicable ... why are Russia, China, Germany, France, a dozen other nations saying we're making a grave mistake?" asked Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) at a Senate hearing last week.

The answer, Powell replied, is that those nations simply do not understand the threat. And in any event, he added, the White House believes that the ends--getting rid of Hussein and his deadly weapons--ultimately will justify the means: potentially launching a war over the objections of the Security Council and towering international public opinion.

"In the aftermath of a successful military operation," Powell said, "people will see that we were doing the correct thing in removing this dangerous threat from the region and from the world."

The pressure that Washington is exerting on Security Council members is becoming excruciating. Weeks of public reassurances from Powell, the administration's most highly regarded international emissary, that the White House would not retaliate against any country over its Iraq position have suddenly been replaced with subtle warnings that sound to some UN diplomats like threats.

"We're having a dispute over policy, and that dispute over policy should not necessarily result in the end of friendships that have served us well for long, long periods of time," Powell said at the Senate hearing.

"Now there may be areas," he added, "where we have to question whether or not we ought to be cooperating with" nations that oppose the U.S. over Iraq.

Asked specifically what might become of the oil and economic interests that France, Germany and Russia would have in post-Hussein Iraq, Powell was even more pointed.

"It would seem to me that the people of Iraq, now having been liberated, might glance around and see who helped in that liberation, who participated in that liberation and who did not," he said.

U.S. lacks votes at UN

The head count at the 15-nation Security Council is still tilted strongly against the White House, which would need nine votes and no vetoes for approval of its Iraq ultimatum. Only Britain, Spain and Bulgaria are solidly in favor, while Syria, Germany, France, Russia and China--the latter three possessing vetoes--are strongly opposed.

That leaves six nations--Pakistan, Mexico, Chile, Angola, Guinea and Cameroon--sitting on the fence, and subject to heavy White House pressure.

The three impoverished African nations fear the loss of preferential trade treatment and desperately needed U.S. foreign aid if they don't vote with the United States.

Each is mindful of the precedent set by Bush's father in 1991, when the White House yanked $24 million in foreign aid to Yemen when that nation, then holding a rotating seat on the Security Council, voted to oppose the U.S.-led war to expel the Iraqi army after its invasion of Kuwait.

Last summer, Congress increased the leverage further by adding a provision to the Africa Growth and Opportunity Act allowing the administration to strip a country of preferential access to U.S. markets if it "has not taken steps to support the efforts of the United States to combat terrorism."

The stakes for two of Washington's closest friends in this hemisphere, Mexico and Chile, are even greater.

Mexico sends more than 80 percent of its exports to the United States and has long sought immigration reforms that would include amnesty for millions of undocumented Mexican workers in the United States. The U.S. ambassador to Mexico pointedly warned the government of President Vicente Fox that Congress might well hinder trade and immigration legislation if Mexico doesn't back Washington on Iraq.

Chile is depending on the White House to submit an eagerly sought U.S.-Chile free-trade agreement to Congress for approval.

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, meanwhile, is being forced to navigate between his newfound allegiance to Washington in the war against terrorism--it has won him hundreds of millions in economic and military aid--and an Islamic fundamentalist backlash.

For his part, Russian President Vladimir Putin must decide whether persisting in his opposition to the Iraq resolution is worth jeopardizing the close relations he has forged with Bush.

"This is not a coalition of conviction," said Ivo Daalder, an Iraq expert at the Brookings Institution and a member of the National Security Council in the Clinton administration. "This is a coalition that has to do with the power of the United States and the fact that you don't want to stand up against the United States."

Dave, It's not hard for me to place MW. I know his province very well.
Just imagine being in the middle of antartica, no trees nothing around you just wind. he may live in Saskatoon, or Regina, or some little hick town, it makes no difference, everything around him or any town is just empty flat (sometimes rolling) land.
It's really, really boring there.

Some Americans picture Canadians as people who wear those lumberjack sweaters, and chop wood all day.
For MW in Saskachewan, an Ax is the most useless tool on the planet

MW, admit that the UN inspection teams believed Iraq to possess WMD.

You are silent on this topic now that you've made a fool of yourself.

So you keep posting other shit, hoping to distract us.

But you don't.

So please explain why so many people, NOT in the Administration, INCLUDING the UN inspection teams, believed in Iraq's WMD?

Oh, right. COWED BY BUSH.

Moron.

In reference to : Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at June 8, 2003 07:36 PM

Knowing how Blix would do nothing to help the US in this matter, for him to go as far as to report that,
it should end all WMD discussion by our little Bush hating, liberal friends. We should copy that post and paste it every time one of those liberal, Bush hating, little pig monkeys whines about 'no WMD'.

On the Hydrogen subject. Hydrogen is expensive and hard to produce. That's been one of the hang ups on hydrogen powered vehicles.

Here is an interview with President Jacques Chirac--the President of FRANCE, MW. (You see, there is a place besides Quebec where French is spoken. It is called France; it borders Spain, Germany, and Italy. I mention it because you are clearly unfamiliar with world events.)

This is what HE said about Iraq's WMD in L' Orient-Le Jour on October 16, 2002:

Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs. Proliferation of WMD constitutes a threat for the planet at large. our security depends on our capacity to deal collectively with this major risk. On this topic, no more than on others, our policy is not to spare Iraq: we have always called for the strict implementation of UN resolutions.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/2002/1016chirac.htm

He then whispered to the reporter, I only said all that because I was COWED BY BUSH."

Even Jacques Chirac believed in WMD, you moron.

Bubba said, "This brings us to another question Anthony, If saddam was just using "hydrogen balloons" for wind drift info, who was he attacking? "

No one. He had the right to arm himself, albeit on a limited basis. He was allowed to have rockets with limied range (90 miles I think). It not inconsistent. A rocket traveling 90 miles, depending upon its trajectory could make use of weather info.

And MW, by posting that almost useless article, you proved one thing, Russia and France didn't want their back door deals with saddam to collapse, and creitien of canada, daughter who is married to petro fina tycoon to loose money.

Funny, I don't see you jumping up and down complaining about syria (or whoever) being head of the un human rights commision.
What are you, a COMPLETE idiot? Take a good look at who on the un voted against, and figure out WHY.
Take note. Canada has no veto in the UN. so no matter what creatien says, according to him he'd have to do what the un says, ooops! I forgot MW, we are NATO, we just us UN as excuses.

Incidentally, my last post--the one QUOTING JACQUES CHIRAC AGREEEING THAT IRAQ HAS WMD--was directed at MW, hence the "moron" comments.

Hey Gabriel:
I thought you said there was no point in discussing this.

Anthony, Hydrogen balloons are used for what? Upper strosphere study?
how high is the upper stratosphere?

please show me how clouds and weather conditions form that high.

No point in discussing our question, Anthony... M "cowed by Bush" W has been trying to say that the Bush Administration were the only ones saying Iraq probably had WMD--and I have quoted Hans Blix and Jacques Chirac , and on other days, Al Gore, to show that pretty much everyone in a position to know thought that Iraq had them.

The question you and I were talking of, Anthony, was subtly different. It was, did the Amdinistration act appropriately to the evidence they had? MW is saying something different from you.

This is why I never call you a moron.

Gabriel
Chirac said "Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs."

may lead to think = suspect.

Sure, Anthony. Nobody claimed direct knowledge of Iraq's WMD program....

My point is that Chirac thought was a reasonable suspicion at the time. Most people did.

Their tune is changing NOW, of course. But then, things were different.

Anthony, face it. It's a stupid argument your trying. WE don't even use stuff like that. maybe the university might play with the odd balloon, usually we use radar, tethered helium balloons. We don't have any army green hydrogen generating trailers,
if we need the stuff we just zap some water and make it in a stationary building that makes other gasses as well.

It's not like iraq is as big as the whole continental America either, it's country the size texas, and I don't think they have 3 trailers of hydrogen balloon plants either, even though everything is done bigger in texas

Right, I'm pro-Syria now. Cripes, Bubba, you get more desperate the more you get into a froth.

And Gabe, I think you've made your point. I obviously think that the Bush administration worked hard to threaten, cajole, and push everyone into thinking Iraq had to be attacked, and that even people like Blix sagged under the pressure. I think that the article I posted demonstrated the level of intimidation that was going on. we certainly felt it here in Canada, and are still feeling it.

But obviously Blix is not going to admit that he responded to the pressure, and it's not something I can provide evidence for. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Except that you, MW, are too stupid to realize that BLIX'S REPORT WAS DELIVERED BEFORE THAT ARTICLE YOU POSTED.

Blix, and Chirac, and all the others were agreeing that Iraq might very well have WMD in 2002.

BEFORE BUSH WAS "COWING" ANYBODY.

But there is something more wrong with your position. By your logic, Bush has superhuman powers to distort the facts. You say that when the facts don't back you up, it is because BUSH WAS COWING PEOPLE BEHIND THE SCENES.

You don't see the problem with that logic?

You sound like the people who believe in UFOs at Roswell.

Jesus Christ, turn off X-Files and start reading some news, all right?

Gabriel

Bush said

"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. Every chemical and biological weapon that Iraq has or makes is a direct violation of the truce that ended the Persian Gulf War in 1991. "

"Saddam Hussein is harboring terrorists and the instruments of terror, the instruments of mass death and destruction. "

""The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program."

Anthony, as far as the "harboring terrorists" part goes, we know for a fact he was. "Instruments of mass death and destruction", jury's still out on. I don't know the basis for the "reconstituting its nuclear weapons program" was, or what was meant by reconstitution, so I've no opinion yet.

The whole first sentence is completely true...

That's a killer quote, boss. We will need to rememeber it in the days to come.

Gabriel

The main point is Bush didn't say suspect. He said I know he has them. This is not the same statement that Chirac was making.

How is the first sentence true. When they went to these facilities they found nothing.

once again, MW, don't say "WE"
because most in Canada don't think like YOU ,so please refrain from implying your opinion is reflecting the nations.

my opinion alone cancells yours, I don't see other canadians jumping up to support YOUR opinion, although, many have to support mine, so I have more support when I say WE Canadians are behind the American position

Anthony, was that from the SOTU address--because, in that, hwe gave a laundry list of weapoms and whatnot--and in every single instance said they were "unaccounted for". Which they were...

Anyone know what this means?

After a thorough review of ballistic missile incident accounts from Operation Desert Storm, we determined that at least 60 false alarms were logged in the KTO[131] (in addition to the Patriot false target detections addressed separately below). None of these 60 alarms documented an actual missile attack, but they may have created the impression that such attacks occurred more frequently than was the case. Even though many of these alerts were cancelled within minutes, many servicemembers and civilians took appropriate measures, donned chemical protective gear, and sought shelter. We believe (because alerts were canceled promptly) that misinterpretation of initial infrared (heat-source) detections by satellites led to most of these false alarms. At least two other false alarms came from detection of signals from a radar associated with Scud operations (it tracks weather balloons to determine winds aloft).

Anthony, he said "REBUILDING" the facilities--not "actively producing WMD from them".

Gabriel

It's from here.
President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat

M W.......Mentally Weak?

Incidentally, Anthony, the question is, did Bush, at the time, have the evidence to say what he said? Not, did it turn out that way in the end, because a) we're not at the end yet and b) we don't expect Bush to have psychic powers, only that he act appropriately to the evidence.

Gabriel
Yes but you know if Iraq had rebuilt those facilities, picture of the equipment would have been in every newspaper in the West.

Gabriel

It is also appropriate to discuss what he said, because as you know many have denied that he ever said anything definite.

He didn't say, "completely rebuilt and operational". He didn't say at all, to what degree they were being rebuilt. Maybe they were putting in new parking lots.

Considering the skepticism about the other satellite photos we produced, I can't see how photos of these are any different.... and anyway, those photos are classified if they reveal too much about our satellite capabilities...

Again, we have to see what evidence he had. We haven't seen that yet. All we know now, is what he said he saw.

the radars for the scud system are guidance systems.
scuds aren't guided by balloons some "clever' person seems to have added that.
Me, I just lick my finger and hold it up in the air before I launch a missle traveling at mach 1.5

He didn't say, "completely rebuilt and operational". He didn't say at all, to what degree they were being rebuilt. Maybe they were putting in new parking lots.

Gabriel Gabriel Gabriel!

You are much too good a debater to try that one.

You are right, Anthony, 8it is important to concentrate on what he said. You have shown, conclusively, that he did make definite statements about Iraq's WMD.

Now, did he have the evidence to justify his statements he made then? I don't know what he saw, so I don't know the answer to that.

But I know this--the CIA and others didn't hand him raw data and let him draw his own conclusions. IF somebody told him "this is what he have and this is what it means", and Bush goes pubnlic with it and it turns out wrong, has Bush deceived anyone?

the radars for the scud system are guidance systems.
scuds aren't guided by balloons some "clever' person seems to have added that.

Some clever person from the DOD

Information Paper: Iraq's Scud Ballistic Missiles
Released by
Bernard Rostker
Special Assistant for Gulf War Illnesses Department of Defense

Anthony, I have to go have dinner. But I have bookmarked the Cinicinnati speech, and in the days to come I look forward to arguing with you about this.

My hat's off. It is a pleasure to watch you work.

*Walks up and taps Anthony on the shouldder*

Stop spewing hot air kid. The point that Gab is making is simple. If their is evidence of WMD then their is a reason for attack. Was their evidence? Yes their was. Enough for the world to agree that the Iraq has WMD. If they didn't have them, why tell them to disarm them?

Get the point. You and beat around the bush all you want, but it wont help you any. The probability of having them is enough. I'd rather not find out the hard way if they do... if they wanted to be good about it they could just PROVE they don't have them. They didn't do that... they kicked out the inspectors/stone-walled them, etc... doesn't exactly sound inocent to me.

BTW, we use sattalite imaging for a lot of stuff. Its more acurate then you think. Also, we use spy planes and many other kinds of intelligence. The point is, you don't have to SEE them to know they exist. Have you ever seen a working Atomic Bomb? How do you know it actually exists? Becasue you've seen it on TV? Grow up.

Hey, lay off on Anthony. He's a smart one, and he may turn out right yet.

IF YOU FEEL THE URGE TO POST SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF 'THERE WERE NO WMD' OR TO 'GEORGE BUSH FALSIFYING INFORMATION ABOUT WMD', PLEASE REFER TO:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26671-2003Jun6.html

AND THIS POST BY GABRIEL:
Gabriel Hanna at June 8, 2003 07:36 PM

It will save us from having to listen to a bunch of 'bs' from a bunch of liberal ranting, Bush hating, little pig monkeys.

*bow*

As you wish Gab.

Anthony, what it said was, everything the iraqi's turned on the radar guidance system for the studs, the satalite detected them. (they track weather balloons)
the us satalite tracks weather ballons, those things float around the earth in the upper strosphere, ground radar can't track those.
makes more sense, don't you think?

I'll be back in 20

I Found it.

The use of signals intelligence to provide warning of Scud attacks, and to assist in locating Scud launchers, was complicated by Iraqi deception efforts. "US officials said the missile is also vulnerable to detection during final stages of launch preparations, when Iraqi force release balloons to check for wind flow that could divert the missile from its target. The Iraqis monitor the movements of the balloon using small radars that Western military officials have code-named End Tray and Bread Bin. These radars transmit tell-tale signals. US experts say that finding such radars can be complicated, however, by the Iraqi practice of deploying extra radars that send identical signals to confuse potential attackers."(30)

"US officials said the missile is also vulnerable to detection during final stages of launch preparations, when Iraqi force release balloons to check for wind flow that could divert the missile from its target. The Iraqis monitor the movements of the balloon using small radars that Western military officials have code-named End Tray and Bread Bin.

Anthony,

Despite your able and compelling efforts, there will be no convincing people like Bubba.

He has dug himself in and now seems to be a bit, er, pig-headed about the whole issue. I supect that you have convinced everyone else that hydrogen balloons can be used for artillery spotting purposes.

Oops, make that rocket trajectory...

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2003/06/09/tomo/index1.html

Good job boys :-)

Wow. I actually feel smarter after visiting this site. . .

I think Gabe and Anthony are multiple personalities from the same person, just having a spat.

They seem too chummy to me. Who said that? Not me. Me neither. You guys shut up in there, I can't hear myselves think.

"Personally, I'd pay a lot more attention to a thoughtful Boston Globe piece than the views of an unemployed Manitoba halfwit."

Derrick Z. Jackson is a moron.

MW, you may be right: According to recent polls, 70% of us Americans are COWED BY BUSH. That's why he'd get reelected by a landslide if the next election was tomorrow. We're all so damn cowed, you see...

Ok, hold up. I'm confused. All this information on gasses and missles is getting my side-tracked. Are they, or are they not allowed to own mobile factories like that? Doesn't matter what their making with them, but are they even allowed to have them?

You folks need to cut down on the vitriol.

In giving Bush, et. al. the benefit of the doubt, how long should they have to seek out WMD before it is proper to say "bullshit?" If a year from now, no WMD are found, and there is no documentary evidence that there were even recently in the country, etc., would it be fair to say that the claims that the Iraqi regime had WMD in recent years are bogus?

Jacques, I believe in equality. If Sadaam was given 12 years, then I believe that G.W. Bush should be given 12 years to prove that there were WMD's.

"Nonsensense"!!! you say. Well, that's the same way the rest of us feel about Sadaam having an undeterminable time.

And I agree with you about cutting down on the vitriol.

Gabriel

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it.

Seems to me this thread is just about petered out, Bubba's in bed with a hangover and bruised knuckles from pounding his fist into the wall, Teacher's Pet is studying his grammar, Anthony and Gabriel are pensively considering one another's points of view, MW is standing in the center of the ring waiting for the next Canuck farmboy that wants to take him on, Dave duBay is hiding until Bubba comes back to help him think of vegetable names to call people.

Looking back, there is an interesting line in the news story MW posted near the very beginning. It said :"Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987."

The reason the Brits are concerned about this is that they may have been the ones who sold Iraq these Trailers of Mass Destruction. This is an easy one, we don't need a genius like Bubba to explain the complexities of chemistry to us. The Brits look over, see the picture, and say, oh those, yeah we got those for 'em.

here is you balloon info, MW and Anthony, please note that they are filled with Helium, not hydrogen.
They just don't use hydrogen in weather balloons.

weather balloon, balloonused in the measurement and evaluation of mostly upper atmospheric conditions (see atmosphere). Information may be gathered during the vertical ascent of the balloon through the atmosphere or during its motions once it has reached a predetermined maximum altitude. Today, atmospheric information is most often gathered by height-finding radar, remote sensing by earth-orbiting or stationary satellites, and aircraft instruments, with weather balloons augmenting the data. Helium, which is less dense than air (see buoyancy), is used to inflate weather balloons. A pilot balloon is a small balloon (diameter c.1 m/39 in.) whose ascent is followed visually to obtain data for the computation of the speed and direction of winds at different altitudes. A smaller ceiling balloon is used to determine the altitude of cloud bases. A much larger, teardrop-shaped balloon is used to carry a radiosonde aloft. The balloon expands as it rises, usually reaching an altitude of at least 90,000 ft (27,400 m) before it bursts. A small parachute lowers the instruments to the ground. Teardrop-shaped balloons are also used for horizontal sounding of the atmosphere. Atmospheric pressure, temperature, and humidity information may be sent by radio from a balloon; monitoring of its movement provides information about winds at its flight level. Techniques also have been developed whereby many horizontal sounding balloons can be monitored by earth-orbiting satellites that relay information to earth-based stations. The tetroon is a tetrahedral balloon used for horizontal sounding. It was developed to withstand the extremely low pressures of high-altitude flight; the straight seals joining its four triangular faces are stronger than the curved seals of the more traditionally shaped balloons. Tetroons have been used extensively in tracing low-level atmospheric currents by following their movement with radar; they have thus increased the meteorologist's understanding of atmospheric turbulence, low-level vertical motions, and air pollution dispersion.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0851701.html

as I said before, hydrogen is seldom used, because it's too dangerous.
now, if your launching scuds, I don't think they are taking great care and all the time and trouble, anti static precautions, to use hydrogen balloons.

remember, when they launch a scud, they quickly set up, launch and bubber off as fast as they can.

hydrogen filled balloons would slow them down considerably.

oops, "bugger off"

PASS ! Please stand up in front of the class, and explain to them how you can justify making such absurd statements! Two weeks ago, you were complaining that these trailers were just 'planted', seeing as how the equipment had dates stamped into them of 2002. Now, you're saying they were sold to Iraq in 1987? Have you been using my time machine? How much deeper is this hole going to get, before you realize it's deeper than you intended it to be? Go back to your little desk now.

Anyone who has taken a chemistry class knows that hydrogen is number one on the periodic chart of elements and the lightest of all elements. It is easy to produce through electrolysis, simply splitting water (H20) into oxygen and hydrogen by using electricity. However, these days, nearly all hydrogen is made from natural gas, using multi-step and high-temperature processes. Nearly all hydrogen currently is made from natural gas. For that reason, hydrogen usually costs more than natural gas.

Golly gee, those trailers don't seem to fit either one of those proccesses. I guess you can toss that 'weather balloon' hypothisis
out the window.

Better back up and try those agriculture arguments again.
or, just accept the fact that they were designed for one thing, and one thing only, and that was for producing dealy bio toxins.

and pass, I'm right here, nope, no hangover, and "farm boy" is 100% correct.
Shot down your "hydrogen plant" theory, weather balloon theory.

You got nothing. Same as that so called expert anylist from that article. Just another case of media trying to make a story.

And, I get a bonus for making you look stupid, but then, you can blame your father and mothers genetic pool for that.

Pass - You're one of those people that never sleeps, aren't you? Your wife complainin' yet about your lack of attention to the home front? LMAO. Contrary to YOUR misguided opinion, Pass, I do have a life - unlike anything you've dreamed of lately. And one other little item I'd like to remind you of, while we're still here, and we haven't lost your attention, short as the span may be - when was the last time I called YOU a name, Pass? Bring it on! I couldn't have asked for a better name than the one you picked for your very ownselves, could I?

Geee....I guess I'm the only one left......sometimes I have to be away too. Job, meals, sleep, social life.......some times I just get sick of hearing the liberal whining.

WM, being endorsed by 'passthegas' does not help your already weak credibility. Makes me think you're just another name created by DondanpassthegasshustonturnipWM.
The balloon issue is mute. The trailers are not used to creat hydrogen for friggin balloons. File that theory with the 'liberal's' baby formula theories on the chemical labs we bombed years ago.

MW whined, "And Gabe, I think you've made your point. I obviously think that the Bush administration worked hard to threaten, cajole, and push everyone into thinking Iraq had to be attacked, and that even people like Blix sagged under the pressure. I think that the article I posted demonstrated the level of intimidation that was going on. we certainly felt it here in Canada, and are still feeling it"

You've mistaken the Bush administration for the French, Germans, and Russians that tried to prevent anyone from screwing up the deal they had going with Sodom. They were the ones 'threatening' smaller countries to not back the US led coalition.

MW then belched, "But obviously Blix is not going to admit that he responded to the pressure, and it's not something I can provide evidence for. "

That's because it didn't happen. If ever someone made a fool of themselves siding with the French, it was Hans Blix.(and the liberal monkeys here) Do the voices in your head tell you these wild stories or do you just make them up yourself??? You've got quite an imagination there, Gilligan.

MW, trying to cover his ass, spouted, "So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. "

I think most of us will agree, you just got your ass whipped.

MW, accuses Bubba of being like himself, by saying, "Despite your able and compelling efforts, there will be no convincing people like Bubba.'

That's not 'Bubba' you're lookin' at in the mirror, pal.

MW professed, "He has dug himself in and now seems to be a bit, er, pig-headed about the whole issue. I supect that you have convinced everyone else that hydrogen balloons can be used for artillery spotting purposes."

The balloon issue is mute. It was all based on your uneducated belief that the cammo mobile labs were used for producing hydrogen for friggin' weather balloons. What 'college of common sense' do you teach at?

By the way, about an hour ago on the news, they revealed that they had intercepted a call from an Iraqi official the night before the inspectors returned to Iraq. He was calling the chemical lab saying he wanted to personally double check that the lab was clean. He was assured that he didn't need to, because 'everything had been relocated'.

MW....place the muzzle in your mouth. Take one last deep breath. Quickly pull the trigger.......Hey!! How come there is no mess on his wall?????

PtG posted:
Looking back, there is an interesting line in the news story MW posted near the very beginning. It said :"Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987."

Now ptg, look up "how to make hydrogen.
it's made from natual gas, and uses high temperature STEAM in the proccess.

Now, try remember that the "expert anylist" said that it was unlikey it was a bio lab because it didn't have a steamer.

the expert contradicted himself

Hahahahahahahahaha you guys are a trip!!!

hahahahaha!!!! you guys are TURNIPS

So now what PtG, they aren't hydrogen plants, no collector, compressor, big ass tank to store compressed hydrogen in ( it would require a VERY large tank)

How many toes do you have left from repeatedly shooting yourself in the feet?

That's the problem with being a liberal newsperson. It's easy to get tripped up in lies and propaganda. Honest media, can always refer back to a statement and defend it. When confrontedm the liberal liars just change the subject, usually with another attack of some wild ass conspiracy theory about the Bush administration.

I see on the news there's some monkey disease, like small pox, spreading like small pox. I think it is spread by people spewing liberal crap from their mouths. I noticed I was feeling nausious when I read MW's crap. We might want to wear protective glasses while reading rants from DondanpassthegashustonturnipMW.

I saw that too, Monkey pox, 3 states have it, Don's PtG's, Turnips, LoL I don't think they have it in Saskachewan (MW's) yet, but maybe soon, they have alot of prairie dogs there.

Pass! We have a new nic for you - 'BUMMER'.

Hahahahahahahahaha you guys are a trip!!!

LMAO!

Bubba

Is it true that you are a pig farmer?

YES.

I own a sow-weanling operation

Is there a good site to get info on sow-weanling info?

Anthony, I did just notice that a google search on "bubba" and "pig" gets 13,600 hits.

Hmmm, I wonder why that would be...?

Anthony ! You may be interested in the fact that a google search for 'Pass the Gas' gets over 1.4 Million hits!

Nice try, Pet, but anybody can see there are only 909 hits... My reputation is small compared to the illustrious genius, Bubba.

You guys having fun?

Uh, should we apologize, Anthony? Sorry Bubba didn't answer your question about the pigs. I think it's his turn at the trough.

I'm not asking for an apology.

Pass - I am not THE PET for nothing.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=pass+the+gas&btnG=Google+Search

What kind of a show do you think I'm running here?

That particular search gave me 1,350,000 hits, Pass. It's no wonder you have such a hard time with numbers!

Pet, you got everything that has the three words "pass" "the", and "gas" in them. Search for the quoted string "pass the gas".

LMAO. Good go, Pass. That kept you busy for all of about two minutes...

Pass - Here's another 'piece' for the toilet tank - http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/07/cia.mobile.labs/index.html

Anthony, nice to see you having fun, But I had to go work for a bit.
what's the interest? If you want to know the hi tech business I'm in, and it is one of the best in the world,
just type manitoba pork.com
fucking easy isn't it?
my factory puts out 28,000 pigs a year.
Manitoba is the pork capital of the work, Because, it's all hi tech.

If you really are interested, just follow the links, I'm one of "those guys"

P.S. Anthony, there are NO operations like this in the USA.

Anthony - His name AIN'T Ben Hofer...

I don't come here to talk shop,
I come here to get my mind off it, and talk about world concerns.
If I want to talk shop, I might as well just turn off the pc and answer the phone

Ben Hofer lives about 15 miles up the road on the hutterite farms

:o)

In fact, Ben Hofer comes by once in a while to raid my beer fridge, (beer isn't allowed on the colony)
And sometimes we do business on breeding stock, plus, he likes to try look and steel my inovative ideas, which, I guard very closely

I was trying to have fun.
I have alot of respect for farmers and ranchers. I notice someone mentioned that you were a pig farmer. I'm curious and I like to learn. As you wish, I won't ask you any questions about your work.

Bubba,
Hutterites have had MAJOR market animal facilities for over 50 years in my neck of the woods. I visited one in ALB about that long ago. I'd never seen so many pigs in one place at one time either before or since.

Correction: I was not trying to have fun.

I have 8,000 pigs at any given time, it's a revolving door, a factory, just like a busy time at Ford Motor Co.
my average sale is 28,000 units a year.

wienlings are my main sales, and they go to finnishing farms, sows and boars are raised to maturity and mostly go to local and northern us markets as well.
There's just too much to the business than i could possibly explain, so Anthony, that's why i gave you the link.

I have staff and a barn manager, I'm an engineer, and I like to be that, why be in business if you can't be and do what you want?

I can sell you a complete plan and tell you how to go about getting governers etc to change state laws, what kind of land base you need, plans for my automated system etc for about 6 million or so. But I'll save those for when I retire, no use shooting myself in the foot right now

Hi all,

I called the NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration).

I don't understand why the NOAA link I gave you was not enough to convince you that hydrogen is used in weather balloons. In my opinion, they are the authority since they do this everyday at 92 different sites in the country.

I called becasue I wanted to speak to an expert instead of rely on a webpage. I hope puts the issue (Hydrogen vs. Helium) to rest.

The individual I spoke to was an EXPERT. He's been launching weather balloons daily for the past
15 years.

He said "Most of the weather balloons that are put up in the country are filled with HYDROGEN. Helium is used a little where by regulations they are not allowed to." He said it take 8-10 minutes to fill the balloon.

Anthony, Bubba's an unintelligent bigot. I think it was clear to everyone else earlier that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and that you did your homework. Trust me, he does not want to accept this fact that you bring to the discussion. I know it's frustrating, but sometimes you have to give up on stupid people.

Don't worry, anthony. Bubba has a liberal-hating thing that prevents him hearing anything he does not wish to hear. He needs to resolve this hatred within himself before he can progress as a human being and learn from others. Emotion can be the death of reason.

I've been watching this with intrest. So I myself called NOAA myself, and the guy said they HELLIUM.
you Anthony, are a liar

Angela, what's the number? I'll call 'em.

So when did you call?
Give me the phone number?
I will call them.
Do you have the name of someone?

P.S.
I asked why they do not use hydrogen, and He said it's because it's very explosive, and most researchers do not have a dangerous goods license and aren't qualified to use or transport it, as you must also have a dangerous goods drivers license endorsement

So when did you call?
Give me the phone number?
I will call them.
Do you have the name of someone?

She doesn't have a number.

...Angela is Bubba...

How thought so. I did you figure it out?

I thought so. How did you figure it out?

The nose knows.

It's simple enough.....just call them yourself..

I would, but I don't really care.

believe me, I am not bubba.
I did call. your a liar Anthony, or, you talked to an idiot.

I got it!
Colin Powell reads Command Post!
Whenever he gets bored and wants some excitement, all he needs to do is give a press conference and mention WMDs, then come here and wait for the turnipian liberals to come out from under their stones and begin their pitiful cackling. He knows that those of us who believe in freedom and don't believe in the terrorism these Bush bashing, analcranially inverted arse creepers and Clintonites embrace will rise to the occasion and stomp down their snivelling "well, where's the WMD?" rhetoric.

LoL!

So, "Angela," why didn't you give us the number? Both Anthony and I asked for it.

Pass the Gas - Sit down. You had your turn.

Angela:

Then give me the number?

Sit down, Anthony. You had your turn.

Ok you som beeches.......I just had to do this before I leave town. I called Michael Hudson with the National Weather Service. His email is: Michael . Hudson @ noaa.gov

HE SAID THAT THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE USES 'ONLY' HELIUM. HYDROGEN IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bubba, you can come back now with full honors. I never doubted you. The rest of you whiners are still just that.

See ya Friday!

give me the number?

I just called Michael Hudson at the NOAA.

I just called Michael Hudson at the NOAA. here is his phone number. (816)540-5147

He is in Missouri. They don't use balloons in their office.

And the best yet? He is out of town for the whole week.

I said "May I speak to Michael Hudson," and she said, "He not here. He is out of town for the whole week"

Anthony.....if you are saying I didn't talk to Mike Anthony at the National Weather Service this morning, then I will have to step up and say you are a fu--ing liar. Call the # back and ask if he was in the office this morning.(They're really going to appreciate this) If I remember right, someone else called you a liar yesterday. If you're saying I'm wrong about the helium deal and that I didn't talk to Michael Hudson this morning..........You definitely are a 'liar'. I will be out of town til Friday, so I won't be around to defend myself on this so remember, "I STAND 100% BY WHAT I SAID AND I DID TALK TO MICHAEL HUDSON AT THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE THIS MORNING AND HE DID TELL ME THAT THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE 'ONLY' USES HELIUM IN THEIR BALLOONS. HYDROGEN IS DANGEROUS." Anyone says any different falls under the liar catagory. Don't like calling people that, but hey, a spade is a spade. Bubba, you are still right.

You legitimate folks, have a good week.

PS:
Anthony, before you run your mouth anymore, go to the Nationa Weather Service's web site. Get a number for someone that is in the office and ask them if they use hydrogen in their balloons. Then you can come back here and appologize to me and everyone else. If you do, I will retract calling you a "liar" and change it to "uninformed Bush hater". Deal?

Dammit....I said Mike Anthony.....I meant to say MIKE HUDSON at the National Weather Service.

No jeff. Why don't you call Mike Hudson and tell us what went wrong.

Jeff

And if you need the number you can find in one of my previous posts.

And Jeff
Perhaps you missed it but I called a weather balloon expert yesterday form the NOAA and he said that most of the site use hydrogen because it is cheaper. He actually has been launching balloons for the past 15 years.

...Once again, standing bloody but tall in the middle of the ring, MW waits for the next loudmouth canuck farmboy to try to take a shot at him...

Whew! That pork biz up there is big.... There's a guy in the classified ads who says he wants to buy 100- 550 feeder pigs(whatever they are). That sounds like a high volume operation, there, Bubba.

Pass - You da Insta-Gator here, or what? It sounds to me like you maybe better quit sleepin' under dem chickens, or you'll get that eggallover feelin' down der. Oh, I of course forgot - you simply quit posting until the red rash of embarrASSment wears off...

I am not, nor have I ever been Pass the Gas, although there was that time in Cleveland where I was Shirley Bellweather for a weekend, but I digress. And for the record, I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinski.

Eve said, "I search the NOAA site and found Mile Hudson's number. I called and they said he was out of town for the whole week. When Jeff B. questioned by statement I called back a second time and ask for Mike again. This time a gentleman answered. He said that he was not in today or yesterday."

Anthony and Eve :) I was on my way to Dallas and it hit me. I know what happened. I found Mike Hudson's phone # on the web site, just like you did. His name was listed with the number. When I dialed the number, a man answered, (I assumed it was Mike Hudson) Anyway, I asked him if the National Weather Service uses hydrogen in their weather balloons. He immediately said, "No. They use helium. I asked if it was because hydrogen is dangerous and he said yes.

I have to appologize for calling Anthony a liar. I assumed the man I talked to was Mike Hudson, since it was his number. The reason I gave his email address instead of his phone # on this post, was exactly for this reason. 500 phone calls to him would not be cool.

Helium! (toke, toke)

No wait, Hydrogen! (toke, toke)

What were we talkin' 'bout again? Oh yeah, Pepperoni!