..AN ONCE OR A THOSAND TONS SOME FOLKS WONT BELIEVE HE EVER HAD ANYTHING,EITHER YOU BELIEVE OR YOU DONT..GREAT JOB TROOPS !!!!!!

Whiners will complain we had it flown in after it was built at Area 51...I once again ask the question: Is this proof enough that Saddam was not in compliance, or do we have to produce a lab in the middle of the production cycle?

Well, it would be useful to find a lab that had evidence that it was actually _used_ to make weapons - begging the question of where those weapons are located. Otherwise, that they have the capability doesn't amount to a smoking gun. Dozens of countries have the capability to produce biological weapons. Whether they actually produce them or not is another question.

Per the ceasefire agreement after the 1991 war, Iraq promised to dismantle ALL CAPABILITIES for WMD, including R&D capabilities.

A lab whose purpose clearly is restricted to bio weapons constitutes a serious violation of the UN imposed agreement that allowed the Hussein regime to stay in power after 1991.

Bet they never declared that under 1441!

"Dozens of countries have the capability to produce biological weapons. Whether they actually produce them or not is another question. "

WRONG - dozens of countries have NOT used WMD against their own populations. Dozens of coutries do not have connections to world terrorism. Dozens of coutries are not resposible for genocide (the Marsh Arabs) or 5000 Sh'ia per month tortued to death. Dozens of coutries do not let half a million children die so el-presidente does not have to forgo the latest in palace design.

The possesion of such material is in direct contravention with the terms of the 1991 ceasefire (UNSCR 678) and with UNSCR 1441 in 2002. Let's remember boys and girls that Iraq was banned from the possesion of such material not on the basis that it was a defeated power but on the basis that it had a long history of abuse of such WMD - Halabja is amongst the most publicised cases but by is by no means unique.

We did a good thing here - even if there are still those that have their heads so far up their own pious arguments as not to be able to admit it.

Hey, it might be Saddam's beer making mobile labs...:)

Simon basically said it. Dispense with your uninformed analysis based on pure logic. There are precidents here that give context and Simon gave some examples.

Game over. What we did was right, smart and probably should have been done sooner.

To those who say that we were complicit in Saddam's previous acts of WMD useage by looking the other way, doesn't that then make it even more emperitive that we corrected it?

Nuff said.. This debate is over.. History will judge the President and the PM of Israel and Australia to have been the few who stood up to face the complacency of the many.

Bravo to them, and God Bless America!

Heh! Thus far, we have a truck about which Nothing is Known at the moment.

Meanwhile, for another take on the issue, go here:

www.sundayherald.com/33628

..its really sad that politics have brought us to this..guess this people would rather see people butchered than lift a finger to help, because their party arent the ones leading.I`m not one to shoot first then ask questions,but enough is enough.THANK GOD FOR THE ONES STANDING UP FOR WHATS RIGHT..

THis whole WMD story on CP over the last several weeks is starting to resemble the David Letterman "Is this Anything?" gag.

My suspicion is that this is - the truck is of the right size, had been washed down with caustics, was shown to the Americans by Iraqis involved in the program, etc. But most importantly, because the Pentagon rather than the press is touting it.

For Don;
Who is "senior officials"?
or "Administration official"?
If I recall correctly on one of your earlier posts we' re not Supposed to Believe the Story if they don't give us names. I quess everyone believes what they want to!

Don,
For your information, this guy>>>>Under Secretary of Defense Stephen Cambone says that this is a mobile lab. Accept it. It was what the UN told Saddam he could not have, and what we (US) told the UN he did have.
End of story.

Unnamed source: "We'd be surprised to find anything because Saddam probably dismantled his WMD programs right before the war".

Sunday Herald: "Aha! Saddam *had* no weapons of mass destruction".

Good grief. Do you see any problem with the logic there?

QUESTION:::::::
IF THE WMD/BIO WEAPONS PROGRAM OF SADDAM WAS ANY GOOD, WOULDN'T THAT MEAN THAT WE WOULDN'T REPEAT WOULDN;T FIND ANY TRACES OF DEADLY BIO-WEAPONS IN THE LAB?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
I MEAN, ISN;T THAT THE WHOLE REASON ONE INVESTS TONS OF MONEY OIN FANCY DUYAL USE EQUIPMENT ----
TO KEEP ALL TRACES OF THE D E A D L Y STUFF IN THE CONTAINERS - AND NOT FLOAYTING AROUNF THE DANG LAB!!!!!!

O danny boy: This isn't a Gilbert Chemistry Set we're talking about here, and whatever excuse anyone can come up with, this rolling stock didn't have any LEGITIMATE purpose. Yes, his program was probably on par with Industrial Strength to the point it wouldn't kill the messenger boy, but that isn't the point of this exercise. We've heard plenty of whining about 'smoking guns', and frankly, it's getting to be a bit tiresome. We have ONE gun. That isn't all he had I'm sure, and it's going to take time to find the rest of the arsenal. And who knows, maybe we will find one that was abandoned in the 'production cycle'.

Hmmmm. Don must be getting nervous. Instead of posting paragraphs of smug pontifications about The Truth, he just scrawls three quick lines and is gone.

To his credit, he is correct about one thing: We don't yet know exactly what this truck was used for.

But since it appears the Pentagon is willing to make official statements that it is indeed a mobile bioweapons lab, they must be pretty DAMN sure about it this time.

Time to go to Strategy #2, Don: This was planted by the CIA/Military/Republican Party.

Or are you still going to claim that this is insignificant?

The Pentagon is DAMN sure nobody's gonna say it isn't a weapons lab... since nobody knows what it really is. The logic I've heard is, "Well, I can't imagine what else it'd be!"

I'm not dead yet! Its just a flesh wound! Saddam used it to indulge his winemaking hobby. It's a baby milk factory!

I've seen hard core smokers with lung cancer claim the government is lying and the cigarettes had nothing to do with it. I've long since given up on the idea that everyone is rational and can be convinced with just the right arguments. People always believe exactly what they want to believe..

Argue with Don if it makes you feel good. But, don't ever imagine you'll cause the light bulb over his head to go on. It's an open circuit.

Reid, the socket is empty.

Ok, gotta add my 2 cents.

every country has military painted portable labs....
yea right.......

"sophisticated production equipment had been found inside the vehicle"
means it's a perfectly honest mobile educational unit for school children.
Yea right.......

"tactical experts have concluded that the unit does not appear to perform any function beyond ... the production of biological agents"
This means, not a parks and natural resorses vehicle..........

"Cambone said the 'mobile production facility,' painted military green, was similar to 18 that the United States believes the former Iraqi government built."
some of that "fake" evidence the usa gave to the UN that our friend "don" was yaking about.

"It was found on a heavy-equipment transporter typically used for carrying tanks"
we transport all our mobile school equipment this way................yea right

"Iraqi sources have said three types of biological weapons were produced in such mobile laboratories: anthrax, botulism and staphylococcus."

all used for agriculture, huh Don, the biologist major? How long was it you worked in the profession? 40 years? it was dangerous shit then too.

"Cambone said the trailer 'has had a very caustic substance washed through it,' perhaps ammonia, and that no agents or components were found in initial inspections."

Normal practice, one would think. I wash my dishes every time i eat off them too.......

"Other equipment included gas cylinders to supply clear air for agent production and a system to capture and compress exhaust gases to evade detection of weapons production."

Why the need to hide a perfectly honest system?
Maybe Don can answer that......

Just a few technical comments.

Much has been made in the media (and on this website) about how no actual agents have been found in the mobile lab. As one who worked in a Level 3 virology lab for approximately 8 years, I can say for 99% certainty that no agents will be found in the trailer, no matter how thoroughly they examine it.

That is because when working with human pathogens, routine sterilization is a must. Assuming that Saddam used his most competent scientists and technicians for his bioweapons program, they would have followed standard, internationally-accepted procedures for cleaning and maintaining their equipment and lab.

This means that any spills of material would have been promptly cleaned up and the affected area then sanitized. In addition, all surfaces and equipment in the lab would have been regularly wiped down with a sanitizing solution. As a futher precaution, there would have been routine fumigation of the lab, to sanitize the hard-to-get areas.

It is quite likely that a thorough decontamination/sanitizing process, such as the one outlined above, was performed on the lab before the war started, since the scientists knew they would be doing no work until the heat was off. The fact that the lab appears to have been wiped down with a corrosive solution (probably Clidox (chlorine dioxide) or concentrated bleach) confirms that this took place.

In addition, I can guarantee from having worked with human pathogens myself that the Iraqi scientists were probably very careful in how they handled their cultures. Hence, there probably wasn't much contamination in the lab to begin with, even before it was sanitized.

Finally, labs such as this are built with containment and routine sanitizing in mind. The walls, floors, ceilings are probably sealed and made of smooth, cleanable and non-absorbent materials. So taking the entire lab apart in an effort to find residue of agents will be fruitless, unless the scientists actually hid the product in some secret compartment inside the trailer.

Now of course it is possible that the Iraqis who worked there were incompetent slobs who didn't use any precautions and who spilled bacteria or viruses everywhere. This is unlikely, since such contamination would be obvious and would have been detected by now.

So, in conclusion, no agent will be found in the lab because there is probably no agent left there. That does not mean, however, that this was not used to produce bioweapons. It simply means that like any competent microbiologist, the Iraqi scientists were careful when they handled their Clostridium and Bacillus cultures.

KEVIN, you ARE an expert. You could've saved ol' Don a lot of heat if you'd weighed in a long time ago, especially on this issue if none other. ALL of the 'mad chemist' types would like their products to be handled in the safest manner, so that only the innocent victims suffer. We wouldn't want accidental spewage to turn our scientists to green foam, would we? I'm a 'victim' of Agent Orange. Our government didn't tell us squat about the dangers of 'defoliants'. What we accused Iraq (read that Saddam) of doing was having a program that they were forbidden to have. I don't condone ANY 'government' established for the 'good' of its citizens, to cause harm to those who have established it, or are living under its control. Iraq had plenty of time to perfect not only the product, but the process. I say, we stay until we find all of the stuff, and all of the stuff for making the stuff, and all of the staff that had the stuff for making the stuff.
I think that Don has probably abandoned this thread, or decided to use another name. One other comment about this lab stuff, and then I'll be silent.

I, and a lot of my 'family' (military) felt cheated and disenfranchised and abandoned by the community and our government. We were poisoned, and in some cases, that was passed (unwittingly) to our children.
I know how the Kurds feel. I know how their children feel. Inside of me is anger that we let Saddam off the hook for his crimes. No more. This is 'proof' enough for me.