Gee, I wonder who might be behind this push for an Islamic state?

hmmm...

Trade one dictator for a new set????

I don't think so.

http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen042203.asp

What a shocker!

Someone needs to teach these dogs some new tricks.

heh. We could throw it out there that maaaybe we have found Saddam and maaaybe we could work a deal to get him back in office?

I think a couple of these Iranian puppets need to disappear for a while

Ungrateful sob's. Iranian puppets no doubt, though we truly should tell them we are putting sadaam back in power

Look here's the dea:, protest all you want. You dont want Americans in Iraq and that is fine. The line comes if these clerics start inciting violence or interrupting the election of a government. If that kind of stuff starts happening its going to have Iran's finger prints all over it and that will have to be dealt with somehow. For now we should make it clear that we welcome the Shiites point of view and recognize their authority to govern themselves. But if they start causing security concerns for the rest of the country we should create some subtle reminders that the Kurds seem to get along quite well with us, and would probably be quite capable of ruling the Suniis and Shiites with our help if things starts spiraling out of control. These folks might need a little wakeup call right about now.

If I were a betting man, I would lay some chips that Ledeen's idea (URL above) becomes policy. Why? See here:

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/882936.asp#BODY

Look at the level of these people in the streets. They are basically - and I don't say this in ignorance but just honesty - they are basically savages (delinquents is probably a better word). They're totally controlled by their instinct and emotion, and that emotion is always a pendulum swing away from being violent and angry and resentful and etc. Women are basically 'holes' to them waiting for them back in the shelter to drain off the excess of negative energy they need to get out of their system. These are extremely unattractive people (i.e. muslims) and an extremely low rent culture and 'civilization' (i.e. islam) once the veil is drawn back. Their rep in the west is so dishonest. The 'palace' has to be cringing at these television images being broadcast widely and frequently in the west. Delinquents engaging in false idol worship in God-forsaken lands.

Every time the press jumps on one of these anti-American stories, I have to wonder if it is the same as all the splash they give to any loud minority opinion, trying to make it look like there is actually an issue there.

Susie,
The possibility you mention is often true, but in this case there's a real problem here. Check out Michael Ledeen's article "We have a narrow window to win Shiite support", appearing today at National Review.

The difference, I suppose, is that when the press at large plays up these stories the intent is to make it appear that we're failing, and whatever has gone wrong is our fault. In this case, as Ledeen explains, some potent troublemakers have set up shop to defeat us and (in Ledeen's opinion) we appear to be underestimating both the opponent and the risk.

To JB:

Thank you! The sense of almost comic relief to hear someone actually telling what they really feel inside is cathartic. You did make one mistake though, that Muslims are "unattractive." Anyone who went through puberty watching I Dream of Genie will attest that Arab babes are hot! Seriously though there is a book called "The Arab Mind" that highlights how in fact the total repression of sexuality in their cultures means that Arab men are totally obsessed with sex, and consider themselves to be ultra macho in private with women. Western women doing business in the Middle East are told to expect to get hit on during business meetings. Much of their vigorous outbursts in fact result from having had their fun side frowned upon by the powers that be. This is why Iraq in particular is so important in that it's one of the most progressive (sic) cultures there, chock full of super smart engineers and biomedical scientists who could just maybe become a new entrepreneurial class.

To JB:

Thank you! The sense of almost comic relief to hear someone actually telling what they really feel inside is cathartic. You did make one mistake though, that Muslims are "unattractive." Anyone who went through puberty watching I Dream of Genie will attest that Arab babes are hot! Seriously though there is a book called "The Arab Mind" that highlights how in fact the total repression of sexuality in their cultures means that Arab men are totally obsessed with sex, and consider themselves to be ultra macho in private with women. Western women doing business in the Middle East are told to expect to get hit on during business meetings. Much of their vigorous outbursts in fact result from having had their fun side frowned upon by the powers that be. This is why Iraq in particular is so important in that it's one of the most progressive (sic) cultures there, chock full of super smart engineers and biomedical scientists who could just maybe become a new entrepreneurial class.

Reading these post is always a rollercoaster ride, some of them are honest conservative views with concerns that i may not always agree with but i can respect. Others are liberaly biased obviously that i dont usually agree with at least it keep the pendulum going. Then there are the extremes like Mr. Americanstreet which are just shy of scarrier than shit. Couple items of note: Arabic women are some of the most attractive of the human species and its a pitty that Mohammad mistakenly thought the need to keep them covered. Also Iraq is considered amoungst most christian groups to be the original location of the garden of eden. Not exactly god forsaken. Ill stop there. Oh and BJ well put.

Actually, the complete covering of women was added after Mohammed: all he said was that they should be "modestly" covered, which in his own time meant covering the pubic area.

And Shi''te anti-Americanism "growing"? Doubtful - the more fanatic clerics have always been against any "outside" influence. For various reasons, they have usually been the ones to get the better places for spouting their position. In Iran, this resulted in a type of takeover resembling that of Lenin with a commited few taking advantage of a power vacuum and lack of coordinated resistance by other revolutionary organizations - and even so, while they kept/keep supreme power they had to allow an elected government which is slowly eroding the clerical power.

This is really very dangerous. It's the islamic clergy that want an islamic regime which is simply a theorcratic dictatorship - freedom of press, separation of religious, judicial, legislative and executive power non-existent. In their drive for this they cousel their flock to hate ("deat to america") and there is no hesitation to indoctrinate from a young age. They use whatever tools available to encourage allegiance to them - religion, history (muslim vs christian world), israeli:palestine issues, etc, etc. Whether there is a dictator or an arab based democracy, they will oppose and cite any number of reasons, all geared to promoting their ascendency to all levers of power.

It is this movement that the west is really fighting, as are many leaders of arab states. A power vaccuum or weak constitution is only going to let in a group that when well funded and with all the power of the state will continue to wage their war against the West.

I'm often suprised by the stupidity of some of the posts here. What kind of stories do you right wing knuckleheads want to read? Nothing but glowing tributes to our boys over there? Fawning profiles of John Ashcroft?

There's a potentially huge problem with the Shiites in Iraq. Iran has a lot of juice with the clerics. I wish you'd stop bitching about the media for reporting what's going on and really look at the issues. It's not about Liberal/Conservative. I think this is the issue to watch.

I dont want the "media" to tell me what is going on. I want my head in the sand. I don't want to know that "democracy" in Iraq will probably mean an Islamic government.

I do not want anyone reminding me that in Islamic countries with a vote, Islamic government is more likely than in dictatorhips