Pardon my french but..... Fuque Vu France

Too late.

Pentagon, where those extremists

You must mean... Those with the MORAL COURAGE to free the Iraqi people...

Remember Frogs, if you hadn't surrendered so quickly to Germany, allowed Viche to control Leb. and Syria, there would be NO Ba'ath party (modelled after Nazis).

So I guess we can say that once again, we are fixing France's foreign policy.

Dear France,

Please Surrender.

Thanks,
The English Speaking World

I'm dumbfounded by the continued blinkered arrogance of these people even as they try to worm their way back in. Hey Jacques, you can't look down your nose at someone and kiss his ass at the same time!

Once Iraqis see how the French and Germans supplied weapons that allowed Saddam to produce Nerve Gas, build massive palaces while kids starved, etc., etc.

Do you really think you are getting contracts?

"...certain Americans want to lock us up."

That's mild in comparison to what I'd like to see happen to the french citizenry.

reee-deep.

piss on the frogs!!!!!

Stupid French...

Its not about Oil...
Its not about Contracts...
Its not about corporate profits...

I call BULLSHIT... For France, its never been anything but...

Go collonize Africa, America will be there shortly to fix up your mess...

All I can say is, rather cynical, eh? And maybe if you had been open to real dialog, things might be different today.

Hey, 1/3 of the French citizenry supports the war effort, according to the polls. Let's not "throw lez babees out wis ze bath watair."

wind in their sails after the military triumph

Yes, the sweet breeze of victory, justice, and freedom...

France, have you ever felt or smelt it on your own...

Hey guys,

Don't underestimate this tactic.

The facts remain:
1 - Mr. Blair stepped up big time for the administration. The administration is going to want to pay him back very badly.
2 - Mr. Blair would very much like a way to paper over the splits in both Europe and his party. Making up with the French, at least publicly, and pushing for a heavy UN post war role, is a very handy way to do this.

So don't count the French out just yet. They are very good at picking up the pieces after other people do the fighting for them.

Shaulie

Over our boys dead bodies???? Fuck you!!!

If France is serious this is what they need to do:

1. Support humanitarian aid and not block it going forward.

2. Endorse the new government and not veto such efforts in the Security Council.

3. Forgive any debts to the previous Regime and let the new government decide who it will conduct its business with.

Short of that, France will be on the outside not only of the Americans and the British but also the Eastern Europeans who they greatly offended. I am not holding my breath because this is a rational response to the issue, and all I see is an irrational hatred of George W. Bush.

> Once Iraqis see how the French and
> Germans supplied weapons that
> allowed Saddam to produce Nerve Gas

Not to take away from some well-earned nose-thumbing at the French, but didn't we do that too?

We can diss the French without being blind to our own mistakes, right?

This doesn't appear to me to be a change of position. The French want to lead the "European Counterweight" to the US. They certainly can't do it themselves, or with Germany, Russia, or other "Old Europe" nations. They need a nation which actually has the capacity to project force beyond its borders. Britain fits that bill, so they're trying to create a wedge between the US and Britain. Thus "cooperate with England" is really "convince England to do what we want them to do."

Desperate, eh?

Rich said:
"If France is serious this is what they need to do:

1. Support humanitarian aid and not block it going forward.

2. Endorse the new government and not veto such efforts in the Security Council.

3. Forgive any debts to the previous Regime and let the new government decide who it will conduct its business with.

Short of that, France will be on the outside not only of the Americans and the British but also the Eastern Europeans who they greatly offended. I am not holding my breath because this is a rational response to the issue, and all I see is an irrational hatred of George W. Bush."

Rich, this is not irrational at all. That's why it is so dangerous. The game here for them is to find a way of getting their foot back in the door. The point of getting back in is precisely so that they can continiue to obstruct and wield influence.

The ultimate aim here is to insure that their debt gets paid, that their Saddam era oil contracts are honored, and that they get a nice piece of the redevelopement pie.

Their method will be to assure the UN a major role, and then obstruct all progress at the UN until their major demands are met.

BTW, this is also the desire of Russia, who will back them up politicaly.

And I'm not prepared to bet they won't pull it off either.

Shaulie

"I'm dumbfounded by the continued blinkered arrogance of these people..."

And just a few weeks ago they had the gaul (? - charles d) to call us arrogant. Unmitigated...

Guess it depends on what the definition of arrogant is is....

DJI said:
"> Once Iraqis see how the French and
> Germans supplied weapons that
> allowed Saddam to produce Nerve Gas

Not to take away from some well-earned nose-thumbing at the French, but didn't we do that too?

We can diss the French without being blind to our own mistakes, right?"

Wrong, dji.

That has to be the biggest of the great big lies promulgated by the anti-war movement.

We never sold the Iraqi's chemical weapons. In fact, we neveer sold them all that much of anything, weapons wise. (About $200,000 all told up till 1991, since then, nothing.)

Who are the top 3 in weapons sales to Iraq? Russia, France and Germany. Surprised?

Shaulie

The US supplied him with Anthrax for "research" purposes... and it was only to develop antidotes..

The equipment, base chemical compounds, and instructions were left to Germany and France...

But that's water under the bridge... The French are just grande assholes and have had this coming to them...

Now bend over and take it like a good frenchman.

Sure, America has been arrogant on this, at times. But it was arrogance on the side of right, not on the side of obstructionism.

Remember who the good guys and bad guys are. France decided to side with a murderous, torturing dictator. Fine. Enjoy your new friends.

oh, wait. He might be dead now. Sorry, I forgot about that.

I think the Bushies will do everything possible to give Blair something he can trumpet back to the Frogs/Nazis, while on the home front keeping everything of real value in his pocket for the US.

Bush can't give anything important up, he'd get killed in his own party, I know I for one would be furious if he threw the weasals any kind of bone and the US public I think would feel some measure of betrayal as well.

Besides that, Bush doesn't WANT to help the weasels, only blair/powell want that.

Hell those two fools would want the UN and the State Department running a post war Iraq, which would pretty much guarantee not only total failure, but utter disaster as well.

At this point, I trust the Pentagon to run Iraq for the next year much more than I trust anyone else on the planet.

But yes, the French are very very good at being weasly little bastards, we have to be careful and keep their camel's nose out of the Iraqi tent for as long as possible. Little amoral opportunistic shitheads they are, no doubt there.

At least the Nazis are in full reverse on their war stance, now that it's all over but the shoutin.. lol

France is trying to manipulate the situation (sound familiar ... wonder where Saddam learned it from). Both the US and the UK should be very leary of such actions. As stated above there position hasn't changed they are just trying to change how they are percieved.

Nice Try.

France, if you are truly serious let us see you get behind UN resolutions towards rebuilding Iraq for the sake of the people not your contracts. After all isn't that what a true anti-war group is interested, stopping the suffering?

Othewise, please step in front of the M1.

...I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage.

You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling Iraqi people.

You excrement, you whining hypocritical toadies with your apologies for megalomanical terrorist dictators arms and nerve gas and nuclear plant sales and your bleeding insufferable postmodern deconstructionist miasma.

..... you blackballing bastards. Well I wouldn't become a Frenchman or let you join in the post war reconstruction now if you went down on your lousy stinking knees and begged me.

with apologies to monty python

http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/arch.html

I don't think the French are going to win here. We will pay back the British in every way except letting the UN back in. UN involvement guarantees the hope of a democratic Iraq will fail. The common Anglo-American interest is success in democritization. It appears that both Bush and Blair share a common vision of an expeditious transition to a fully Iraqi government. From what I have seen we have been taking counsel with our coalition partners -- particularly Britain -- Iraqi exiles, and Iraqis on the ground. We will listen to all those who have a real interest in democracy, and plug our ears to the rest.

I wish we could all get along....

I hate california reds.

Can we have the stupied French stay the F away from this. They are the same AHs that do business with terrorist rgimes like Iraq and Iran

Well, lessee....They called us arrogant because we had the "gaul" to demand that the Security Council back up its words. I'm calling them arrogant because even in the face of overwhelming evidence of the good that is coming out of our actions, they still refuse to believe we were right to go in. Nope - I don't have much trouble seeing a distinction.

"I wish we could all get along....

I hate california reds."

Then try some Australian wines.

We should let the French in, as well as the UN. Let them do the very low-level clean-up jobs, but only very basic stuff. Nothing to do with defense, government, etc.

Seriously, though, I am curious as to how much of Iraq would welcome the UN/French/Russian/Germans. I wonder how they would feel towards any group who tried to prevent the coalition from getting rid of Hussein.

"The ultimate aim here is to insure that their debt gets paid, that their Saddam era oil contracts are honored, and that they get a nice piece of the redevelopement pie."

This in my opinion is not rational but rather is extremely short-sighted. A democratic Iraq will do more for the world economy than any contracts for individual countries. If the pie is bigger then you have less worries on how it is sliced.

It's obvious that, even after better than 200 years of being "friends", and us rescuing France in 2 world wars (to say nothing of attempting to clean up a few of their colonial messes), France still does not understand the United States.

The US is slow to anger, quite slow. We are slow to go to war.

But once we get fired up to go to war, everything changes. Total war, total victory, you're with us or against us. End of story.

Germany and Japan simply didn't get this in Big Mistake 2. They taunted us, and nibbled at us, and jerked us around diplomatically for years, and we did nothing. They "reasoned" from that that they could act with impunity, and the fat, lazy 'ol USA wouldn't ever do anything. So they continued down their path.

Eventually, they pushed too hard. Then we got mad, and all Hell broke lose. We flattened, literally, both countries. No quarter asked or given. Unconditional surrender. And war crimes trials afterwards, assholes.

What France, and much of the world doesn't seem to "get", is that, once again, America has been prodded enough to get mad. We're pissed-off, and we're likely to stay pissed-off for some time. Little diplomatic sops and hints that maybe France might forgive us, a little bit, if we ask nice, isn't going to cut it.

We're at war, France. And you chose to be on the opposite side. Check your history books to see what that means. Don't expect ANY forgiveness or consideration from the US for a long, long time.

I live in an area that depends heavily on tourist income, much of it from Old Europe. But I'm telling you right now, France, stay home. We don't want our beautiful beaches to be sullied by your feet.

Rich said:
"This in my opinion is not rational but rather is extremely short-sighted. A democratic Iraq will do more for the world economy than any contracts for individual countries. If the pie is bigger then you have less worries on how it is sliced."

That is a classic free market economic analysis. On that logic, the E.U. should abandon its farm subsidies program. Of course, France is socialist/statist in orientation (even under the 'conservatives') and rejects that, as well, with great vigor.

Shaulie

And I'm blinded by the continued and deep hatred against France in the comments here. Take a chill pill, it's just one fucking political disagreement, and one thats relatively insignificant anyways. The US and UK want to attack Iraq, France doesn't and urges them not to attack. They ignore France and attack anyways, as expected. Whats the big fucking deal? It's not like the coalition needs their military or political support. Why is France suddenly the great satan? Hell, 80% of the world agrees with them, do you guys want to kill them too? You might want to think of some insults that are actually creative and true, unlike the frog/suicide bullshit.

Yet the same knee-jerk reactions happen on the other side of the Atlantic; the desecration of cementary in France, German doctors refusing to treat american patients et cetera ad nauseum. What the fuck is wrong with the world? Is everybody so blinded by arrogant, intolerant jingoism that they have to vent their frustration against citizens of countries whose government disagrees with their own?

bah, suicide should've been surrender

A democractic Iraq *is* on the way, no thanks to the French, Germans, and Russians.

It is being won with hearts, minds, and bodies, not with contracts.

A free Iraq's effect on the world economy will be shared and celebrated by many. The world is quite large, and I am sure someone else will be happy to have one slices of the pie that could have gone to the French/Germans/Russians.

Angry, the French didn't merely disagree. They thwarted. There is a difference.

Maybe Blair is playing the "good cop" in this yet again. He is saying to the French and Germans "Look, I really want to get the UN involved. I'm going to insist on it when I talk to the Americans."

Of course he knows that we won't allow it and that we have very good reasons for that. If he were to simply parrot that line of reasoning there would be a bigger rift to mend in the years to come. However, he will now be able to say "Well, I tried. I really did. Sorry, but the Americans trumped me on this one. I feel just awful about it. Toodle-loo."

The end result is the same. The French and the Germans don't think any less of the Bush administration (how could they?) and Blair makes a few political points at really nobody's expense.

These statement are the logical extension of this entire subversion. Knowing Britain is half way to socialism, and Blair is dogged by his u n stance, these comments are predictable. Our State department is complicit in aiding Socialists migration to the UN as the worlds arbiter, Britain has this endemic socialist base that supports anything leading back to the u n. , France is lobbying world wide to sustan the UN as the arbiter of International subversion, the EU is being manuvered into a Socialist mega state, which will then transfer increasing power to the UN to subject the US to u n control. SAY NO to Both Mr Bush, we will not give up our soveriegnty to the UN or the subversion being planned.

"We should let the French in, as well as the UN. Let them do the very low-level clean-up jobs, but only very basic stuff. Nothing to do with defense, government, etc."

That's a great idea. Let them back in and give them a contract to clean up all the supposed non-existent chemical weapons sites. This way the frenchy french put their guys in harms way for once and they get to do a public service.

Sounds like a win win

"We only sold them anthrax for research purposes."

Come on. Our government knew who and what they were dealing with. Our hands are not clean. And, yes, I know the French & Russian roles in selling nasty stuff to Iraq. I also know our role.

But I won't argue any further. The booyah playground attitude predominant in this chain doesn't help a thing. If you're doing the right thing, you can do it gracefully and get to the right ends... without spitting on those who thought you were wrong. This chain's all about spittle.

Hey Jacques, you can't look down your nose at someone and kiss his ass at the same time!

You've never shopped in Paris with a platinum Amex card.;-)

DJi: maybe you'd like to tell that to my uncle. Oh, wait. You can't...he's buried in Normandy.

I have paid for the privilage of spitting on the French. What are they going to do about it? Cry? Stamp their well-shod little foot?

The French are about to reap the rewards of their own brutish behavior in Africa and the treatment of their minority Muslim population. For as the Brits say..bad actors always get their comeuppance...always.

You throw Normandy at me? Got any ideas where my grandfather's buried?

Your rhetoric about the French "reaping the rewards of their own brutish behavior" is a waste.. are you flame-baiting or just dumb? The hate-spewers on all sides use the same speech you're using. It helps nothing. And whatever good we're trying to do here, we won't pull it off if we can't look at ourselves realistically and leave out the hateful crap.

Anyway, enjoy your spitting.