MKT TICKING UP-RUMORS THAT AL-JAZEERA REPORTING SADDAM DEAD

got this from one of my brokers, can anyone confirm?

They've nothing on the english portion of their website.

http://english.aljazeera.net/

Yeah but they are always late to update their "Infidel" version of the site.

From what I have picked up, a “journalist” was sticking his head over the cornice of the roof looking down at an M1 tanker with a set of field glasses. This behavior is EXACTLY what a field artillery spotter would engage in. I tell you with some confidence that tankers HATE artillery!
The M1 commander, wishing to preserve himself and his crew, put a round up and blasted the are where the “Field Artillery Spotter” was located. Sadly, a “journalist” got sent to heaven. Gee!
Well, I leave you with a paraphrase from some philosopher or other once used. If you don’t want to get bit by mad dogs, don’t hang OUT with mad dogs.

Another reason that I don't feel that we need so many civilians over there RIGHT in the MIDDLE of everything! Some do stupid things, without thinking and get killed. It is a tragedy that more and more accidental deaths are occurring, but that is what happens when everyone is on the look out for the bad guys on every corner.

If only the other four or five million pesky civilians had listened to our warning, they wouldn't be in harms way, either!

They are by no means martyrs, the embedded reporters with the Iraqi's...which is what the Al-jazeera & other reporters in-country at the pleasure of Sadaam's regime are, even though they don't admit it...and they take the same chances that coalition embeddeds take. During a shooting war, in the war zone itself it is NOT safe. It's dangerous and war correspondents know this in advance.

Just saw this article "Bagdad Reporter issues SOS" - this coming from Abu Dabi tv on air asking for help from humanitarian groups saying they are surrounded and caught in the middle of combat - I thought the press would have gotten the hell out of that area after being hit this morning...

read more at
http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6258985%255E25778,00.html

Seawolf_15

You are wrong, they where not on the roof.
The shell hit the 15th floor, either there was somebody on the roof with binoculars and they are a bad shot, or you lied. Besides, the troops should know where and what the palestine hotel is, and that there are journalists all through the building. I severly doubt that Iraqi military would use (or would be able to use!) the Palestine hotel with all the journalists and foreigners in there.

All tanks record voice transmissions, and video. There should be no reason why the US could not release the radio comms from the event, as well as video from the tank. Lets just hope that this time they don't doctor it or speed it up as they did in Kosovo.

"I severly doubt that Iraqi military would use (or would be able to use!) the Palestine hotel with all the journalists and foreigners in there."

Precisely WHAT behavior on the part of Saddam's forces makes you believe this? Their past record makes it more likely than not that they had snipers/spotters/fedayeen in that hotel.

Use of human shields? They've done that.

Firing from protected sites? They've done that.

Reuters has video of them getting hit, it looks like Samia Nakoul, the hottie female reporter they have, is getting rushed off to the hospital. I hope they're ok. I don't know WTF the army was thinking here; this looks like a screw up rather than Iraqi treachery here.

I severly doubt that Iraqi military would use (or would be able to use!) the Palestine hotel with all the journalists and foreigners in there.

I don't doubt it.

"I severly doubt that Iraqi military would use (or would be able to use!) the Palestine hotel with all the journalists and foreigners in there."

What turnip truck did you just arrive on?

There's a story a bit earlier today about how senior Iraqi officials at the hotel were crying over the disaster that has hit their regime...NYT said they had been there for 20 days...

Robert: I am sure that if the Iraqi military were in that building and using the journalists as human sheilds you would see it on the live broadcasts. Dont kid yourself, you are too hyed.

Not very assuring seeing so many people jump to the defence of the US military when they fire on a hotel full of civilians. Think about the dead journalists who went to Baghdad to bring us better coverage, and who now are dead from US arms. We even have a few of you trying to spin it around to being the fault of the Iraqis!

US tank, shoots hotel, journalists die. Lets not complicate it.

Iraqis shoot at tank, US tank shoots back, people killed. Let's not complicate it.

John: You just did! My version is so much more better, and the most important thing is, my version is true!

Did the hotel shoot at the tank? Next thing I am expecting to hear is that the Iraqis were using the hotels kitchens to produce Anthrax and Sarin. Or no, wait, Saddam was having a meeting in Room 511 and "US intelligence" acted. Give up.

They thought someone was shooting at them, and that's probably enough in a war zone.

They thought someone was shooting at them, and that's probably enough in a war zone

No its not. That might be how the US military work, but in a real army you confirm your target before engaging. Perhaps that explains all the friendly fire incidents, and convoys of journalists being bombed, and vans of civilians being mowed down at checkpoints.

And then I guess it comes down to who is doing the "thinking".

"Did the hotel shoot at the tank?"

Of course not. Hotels don't shoot.

Iraqis inside the hotel shot, or idiots inside the hotel acted like they were going to shoot.

Of course, when the van of civilians is barreling down on the checkpoint and making no attempt to stop and they are, in all likelihood, on a suicide mission for Saddam, does that still make them innocent civilians?

So much spin, so little time. Baghdad Bob has a job opening for you, doubleblack.

You guys are still complicating it, scroll up and grasp the context of this thread please.

If anybody is spinning, it would be you guys with your "oh, guys acting like they were going to shoot". Thats spin, a US tank shooting at a hotel and killing two journalists is FACT.

Robert: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm

"From what I have picked up, a “journalist” was sticking his head over the cornice of the roof looking down at an M1 tanker with a set of field glasses."

Which is why they shot at the middle of the hotel?

"They thought someone was shooting at them, and that's probably enough in a war zone."

meaning over the next six months, when we are certainly going to be taking sniper fire, we will be firing tanks into buildings?

I am not blaming our men in the tank. But if these are the rules of engagement in a city of 5 million people -- and probably as many caches of stored rifles and RPG's -- all you need is a few hundered persistant enemy soldiers/guerillas to cause our side to be killing civilians in droves for a very long time.

Hey double_black
read the news. Your losing the word war.

Rooftop snipers have been shooting down on US soldiers, wounding two - one seriously. There are reports US tanks have been spotted on the Jumhuriya bridge over the River Tigris and US armoured cars have fired cannon and machine guns across another central bridge, the Sinak.

Smitty: I am not losing any war, what makes you think that I side with Saddam?

This whole "you are either with us, or with them" delusion is just going too far. I do not want to have to support an illegal invasion with obvious malpratice to be against terrorism.

I am against terrorism, but I don't opt to fight terrorism (which is arguable with invading Iraq) by stiring more terror.

I am just pained by the ignorant reactions for cheerleaders on this board who immediately defend _any_ action regardless of what it was, or its implications. There is always a spin, there is never an admital to wrongdoing. Free thinking is what you are supposed to be defending, try practicing it.

Compare what we are doing to the alternate, old style of battle...go look at pictures of what Berlin looked like at the end of WW2, and then think about our current methods and rules of engagement. There is quite a difference between what we are doing and what we could have been doing. You might not like what is happening, but it's a great improvement on past methods that will save many many civilians and even their homes.

But as to the reporters, the fact is, the hotel is surrounded by war. They are in a war zone. The reporters volunteered to go to a zone they knew there would eventually be fighting. Getting shot at is part of the reality of what happens when you put yourself in harm's way by going into a war zone. It's a shame, but it's also one of the possibilities for going into places like that. If you stand next to a raging bull, you could get gored.

dude, get over yourself.
If you were actually there and saw it happen, then great. What makes you think anyone knows what really happened yet. We may never really know. I think your taking this thing personally.

They trusted the Iraqi regime to protect them. Dumb.

I've always thought that real reporters wouldn't be staying in a hotel and having Iraqi minders censoring them. We could get that from Al Jazeera. They should have stayed in Doha.

There's a saying regarding double_black...

Never argue with a fool, bystanders won't be able to tell the difference.

double_black, it's this simple:

hang around a warzone long enough and your odds of living decrease more and more.

Knitting: Your right, I should be gratefull, that MORE innocent arn't dying. One of the main ways this war was "sold" was that it would be precise, quick and have extremely low civilian casualties. The original plan was obviously bungled, and now the US can not back down but insists on keeping this line, to avoid embarresment. Now every incident has to be justified somehow in the greater context, by either directing attention back to the Iraqi regime and pointing out that the US is "less ruthless" (therefor better), or to point back to previous cases to where there wasn't "precision".

Hey, lets just lay it all on the table and stop kidding ourselves. The spin pisses me off, I don't like being lied to, and the blatent attempts at manipulation by the US puts them in the same category as the Iraqi information minister.

And knitting, the journalists might be able to leave (which would leave us with no coverage, so then we solely rely on what Iraqi disinformation, and American disinformation say), but that would still leave 4 million civilians in Baghdad. I am sure that the US army knew that there where 4 million citizens in Baghdad before they went in.

honk: US command has confirmed that they actually targetted, and hit, and killed two journalists in the hotel. They say that there was a threat from the hotel.

Chank-A-Chank: I am juts arguing against the spin man, just against the spin. Less spin and shit benefits us all.

Try asking questions to your leaders, democracy is a two-way process. But it seems that most people here are drum-beating, oh well. I will take my views elsewhere since I can not really hold discussion amongst ignorance, it is like screaming in outer-space.

I'm very curious to who this "spin man" is. Is he like spider man?

Perhaps the usa should shoot less and find more WMD - the whole reason for this invasion, not so?

I can't help it if you don't like it, double_black, but reality has a way of determining things, no matter what our likes or dislikes. It really doesn't have a lot to do with how you think a war should be run - it's the way it IS being run. There's a point desire no longer has much roll. If you drop a ten pound weight on your foot, it's going to hurt, no matter how much you don't like it. If you stand next to an explosion, you may get hurt. If you go to a war zone, you have a bigger chance of being hurt than if you aren't there. Like has nothing to do with it. Reality isn't that flexible.
People are going to shoot back at things and people they think are shooting at them in a war zone, no matter how you want to set up rules of engagement. Bad rules of engagement get soldiers killed, and having done that to ourselves in the past, I don't think the current military thinking will bend a whole lot on that.

I heard that.

KAC: I agree with you, which is why the war shouldn't be sanatised or abstracted to the point of
video footage from the tips of bombs. If we all know the realities of what war is, we would treat it with more respect and not wave it around as the only solution to the world's troubles.

But sometimes, it is.

Hey, does anyone know who the "spin man" is? I honestly can't figure out what double-back was talking about.
In every post, he seemed to contradict himself.

How's outer space. Double back.

Double--let's consider for a moment what you might have done facing similar circumstances:

You are a tank commander in the middle of a city filled with hostile forces.

These forces have used civilian buildings--including SCHOOLS and HOSPITALS as firing positions and storage cites.

They have also used civilians as shields, and threatened others with death if they do not cooperate.

You are receiving incoming fire, and your are responsible for the lives of your crew, and perhaps others under your command.

You suspect that the fire is coming from, or being directed by, a sniper or spotter in the Palestine Hotel. You see the glint of the scope or spotting glasses.

The rounds might already be incoming that could knock out your tank, kill your crew, or the other young people that are under your command and are your friends.

Any reasonable thinking person in a war zone would take the shot, and worry about Sunday-morning quarterbacks after the fact.

Plus, journalists are not "civilians" in the strict sense of the word. They are "noncombatants." The distinction is important because a "civilian" would keep his head down and not be risking his neck to get footage. Reporters are not the same. By putting themselves in harm's way, they must accept some commensurate amount of responsbility.

The deaths of innocents is a tragedy, but was not likely the result of some evil intent to target journalists. In fact, the tankers in question would rather not waste the ammo on non-threatening targets.

Double_Black,

DAMM, Oh well there was hope...
"oh well. I will take my views elsewhere "
Posted by double_black at April 8, 2003 01:37 PM

I had many, MANY things to say regarding your REDICULOUS excuse for a discussion (AKA:debate!), however upon your most recent post(s) they can be charaterized by a quote:
"It is far better to remain silent, and have someone think you an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove ALL DOUBT!"

OH, I feel certain you are SO well informed as to the "realities of war"! SO, when/where did YOU serve?!? I KNOW, you are REALLY CIA/SOP and you WERE in the hotel...OF COURSE, HOW ELSE could you "KNOW" all that!?!?! Just like "screaming in outer space"...except I HATE to be the one to break it to you, that TERRIBLE smell ISN'T space! It seems, your HEAD has REALLY been up your ASS the WHOLE TIME...NOT SPACE AFTER ALL!!!

1. All the posts that say the journalists shouldn't have been in Baghdad anyway are stupid. Why shouldn't they be there? It's their job to cover the other side of the story, and everyone who watches the TV news enjoys the benefits of that coverage.

2. Bad things happen in war. People get killed in war zones. True. These particular people, though, got killed because some tanker shot them. Hard to believe he had sufficient cause. I don't think the Iraqis were firing from the hotel, because the other journalists there say they weren't.

3. This, and a bunch of other incidents, makes me wonder if there isn't a problem with the American armed forces. Are there too many trigger-happy cowboys? I've never had a shot fired at me, so I really don't know, but I know the British troops in Basra complain the Americans are too quick to shoot. I know some idiot pilot killed some Canadians in Afghanistan after being told not to fire. And the Americans shot up the Russian ambassador's convoy on the way out of Baghdad.

Makes you wonder.

Thanks Steve, finally, some reason. I am seeing a lot of gun-ho yelling criticisms here, "up your ass"
and all that. Just degrading the topic here even further.

American_Defender2003: Firstly, don't ask me what you are defending, but I dont think that too many Americans would stand along side you with such ignorant outbursts. It is a sign that you have been hit in a soft spot, but please, keep it sane.

To the few who are trying to look at this war objectively on this blog:

You are wasting your time. This blog was overrun by a bunch of blinded, high on a one sided victory, super patriotic people - reminds me of a feeding frenzy among sharks or hyenas.

For a tank to fire a round into a hotel full of civillians based on a sniper firing at it says very little for american armour and much about the classic cowboy image.

"I've always thought that real reporters wouldn't be staying in a hotel and having Iraqi minders censoring them. We could get that from Al Jazeera. They should have stayed in Doha. "

This is a cowardly thing to say. One does not have to be against the war in any aspect to also, as a citizen in a democracy, be able to see what the war brought. We are not talking about the inevitable rober fisks or those parroting the Iraqi government line. There are many, indeed most, reporters in Bagdhad who are reporting aspects of this war that need to be shown and can only have been shown from inside Iraq

You sound like you want to read Pravda or television movie with soldiers fighting and being killed and civilians somehow not being a factor.

Also if it were not for these reporters people in the Arab world would still think Saddam was in charge.

On another person's comment about the tank commader's choice:
"Any reasonable thinking person in a war zone would take the shot, and worry about Sunday-morning quarterbacks after the fact."

I agree. He has to protect his men. But by the same token this could mean we are going to be doing the same thing thousands of times? There will be very similar situations in two weeks, next month, etc.

It is perfectly valid to say we have a problem here. This situation should be critiqued. It is NOT about saying this is a war crime, that it creates some kind of moral equivalence or that our soldiers are trigger happy. It is about saying, ok, what are we going to do in future?

Neil: but its so fun, and easy. You should stick around for the tantrums.

Its funny that as soon as you say something that is outside of GWB cheerleading and makes sense, your credentials are immediately questioned! Good stuff.

Steve and Neil, yall crack me up. I would take apart what yall are saying, but it would be a waste of time and I would be breaking my first rule of debating fools.

Chank....

Debate is between two rational sides.

None of that here!

Thanx for sparing me the humiliation

Yep, leave debating to those damn EU and UN people.

The greatest advantage of having a one-party system, ie. A regime, is that you do not have to debate and take into account any considerations other than your own. You just act. That whole democracy thing wastes too much time talking and agreeing.

Double_Black

But don't forget - democracy at gunpoint is such a handy tool for grabbing strategic resources!

Firstly, firstly isn't a word you ignorant, uneducated ASS! You get ONE (I know even YOU can count to ONE, but just like Michael Moore, will claim a MAJORITY!) person to agree to ONE point and you claim a victory. Your "arguments" are FULL of assumptions, allegations, and PARTIAL facts. If you had even a BASIC elementary LOGIC course you could see the absurdity.

Ass "Steve" said" "Never had a shot fired at me...!" and then follows with "makes me wonder". STOP PASSING PROJECTURE AS FACT you LEFTIST ASSHOLE!

Where/WHEN did these British troops "complain"...funny, their COMMANDER had NO SUCH COMPLAINTS!!!!!! AND AGAIN, when did this "idiot Pilot" get told not to fire?!?! And FINALLY, GEE...I guess STEVE has PERSONALLY interviewed everyone involved in the Russian Diplomatic incident! ~DO NOT MAKE FALSE ACCUSATIONS IN SUPPORT OF AN INVALID PREMISE!!!!

I think, no I KNOW you would be SADLY mistaken!!! There are many, MANY whom would stand beside me…many of which would stand beside me REGARDLESS of what I said as we are a band of brothers (something that YOU will NEVER understand…that whole ‘Don’t ask-don’t tell’ thing!)! UNFORTUNATELY, what I am defending and HAVE defended was our country and even a little PISS ANT, WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT LIKE YOU badmouthing our GI’s during an active conflict! I ASSURE YOU, there is no “soft spot” that a little worm such as yourself can hit. I have paid my dues in blood to this country…and have the scars to prove it! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?!?

There is PLENTY of time for your “debating societies” AFTER the battle has been WON! IF you had ANY semblance of what constituted a REAL argument in a REAL debate, I would GLADLY debate you and SUMARILY KICK YOUR ASS ON THAT BATTLEFIELD AS WELL!!! Sensationalism, personal interpretations, are NOT arguments.

Oh! and don't forget using american taxpayers' money to flatten Iraq,then use some more to rebuild - handing those lucrative contracts to the well connected.

Man - even Africa can learn from this economic model!

Even Jesus whipped some ass when he saw a wrong being done.
It's easy to talk, hard to do the right thing.
We rolled. They lost. Talk is cheap.
Keep on talking......
I wonder who is spinning those lies of a majority of support for the war?
I know it's hard to be on the losing side. Just get over it.
Oh, by the way, we have entered bagdad.
And we are still there.

Saddam, can you hear me now?

Hello, we are still in bagdad.

Debating 101 for the War Cheerleader: How to defend yourself against constructive criticism.

- Attack their grasp of English, Ignore the fact that American English has been bastardised and the very person that runs your country has not learnt it at all.
- Insults, insluts are the key. Leftist, communist, whateverist. A direct link to Stalin and/or Hitler in this instance would score you double points. We all know that they are bad, and very powerful imagery to use in this instance.
- Accuse them of not fact-checking, but don't do any fact checking yourself or point out in what instances they where wrong. Accusations are adequate to win any debate!
- Question their background, if they know too much and seem to be critical, remember that they are terrorist evil leftist michael-moore loving scum. - Remind them that you are American, and what you have done for your country, these unapreciative bastards have no comprehension of this.
- Whitehouse.gov transcripts combined with your computers copy and paste function is both time-saving, and a great assurance to "one voice" speaking against this terrorist lefy communist scum.
- Oh, did I mention insults?

Keep digging American_Defender, keep digging.

American Defender

I'm deeply concerned that you actually represent the democratic principles America wants to introduce the Iraqis to.

It's a shame....

the best part of you ran down your mommy's leg.

American_Defender: The only thing that you are defending is fat-cat businesses. Passion like yours has been turned against morality for the sake of the dollar.

Paranoia must be contagious, it is spreading faster than SARS.

Snap out of it.

What does "democratic principles" have to do with THIS debate?!?!

Of course South AFRICA has such a STERLING record on ALL of the above subjects?!?!?

Hey, answer me this. How can the United States kill someone using a tank, when we aren't even there according to the Iraq Minister of Info?

Damn spinmen!!!!!!

This is like the old joke of four blind men that come across an elephant. Each of them try to describe what the animal is while only touching a portion... the tail, the trunk, a leg, the side. They each think they have found a different animal.

Can we try and agree on one thing? we do not have all of the information.

What if the tank commander had been told there were Iraqis with those wiz-bang Russian anti-tank missiles the Syrians shipped last week. And what if there were special forces on the ground (not in the tank) that said they witnessed Iraqis carrying these weapons go into the Palestine Hotel. Would it make more sense to fire a tank shell in that instance?

What if he simply missed? (There are reports that Iraqis were in buildings on either side of the hotel and firing at Coalition forces).

What if he was firing not to protect himself but other troops/vehicles which were exposed and being fired upon which were quite a bit more fragile than an Abrams?

My little fantasies notwithstanding, we don't know what happened in the minutes or hours leading up to the incident.

To assume one way or another, that it was "just another friendly fire accident by the cowboys" or "of course he was fully justified to fire at the hotel" is to make a lot of assumptions. Easy to do from our keyboards, right?

I agree whith whomever wrote the best thing we can do is learn from the incident and try and prevent it from happening again.

Of course South AFRICA has such a STERLING record on ALL of the above subjects?!?!?

Mummy, jimmy gets to throw rocks, can I throw rocks too?

Petel: I do not care for the Iraqi regime. Again, you guys take "with us, or with them too far".

"What does "democratic principles" have to do with THIS debate?!?!"

I rest my case!

American....

Just some insight into South Africa

Those people who have now won their freedom are 100% against this war. So our record aside - here we have people who were oppressed for decades, but they still cannot be convinced about your intentions.

American reputation preceeds you.

What do you expect from people who are "world champions" in sports only played in america!

Learn from your hillbillies - inbreeding is not healthy!

Re: American defender's post above

British troops complaining about friendly fire link: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/31/1048962677393.html

American pilot "reckless":
http://www.canada.com/national/features/article_32/story.html?id=1DD3BE6D-9A37-48FC-B373-E237EF6E9E6F

"UNFORTUNATELY, what I am defending and HAVE defended was our country and even a little PISS ANT, WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT LIKE YOU badmouthing our GI’s during an active conflict! I ASSURE YOU, there is no “soft spot” that a little worm such as yourself can hit. I have paid my dues in blood to this country…and have the scars to prove it! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?!?"

I have asked a question. Instead of answering it, or making a reasonable argument, you have attacked me personally.

I don't think you're too smart.

I can back Neil up on his remarks about South Africa. I was in Cape Town for a few days recently and the general mood there is against the war. Your mission is by no means a parallel to what the South African people experienced in breaking free 10 years
ago. Comparing what the US is doing in Iraq to what the people here did is an insult, Bush is no Mandela.

I think Bri is likely right.

He wrote:

"To assume one way or another, that it was "just another friendly fire accident by the cowboys" or "of course he was fully justified to fire at the hotel" is to make a lot of assumptions. Easy to do from our keyboards, right?

I agree whith whomever wrote the best thing we can do is learn from the incident and try and prevent it from happening again. "

I'm not saying the American troops are trigger-happy cowboys. After all, they are doing a huge amount of fighting right now, much of which we aren't hearing about, and some bombs and shells are bound to go astray.

But a handful of these incidents are disturbing. They make me wonder if there's a trend here.

PLEASE...

One more canned, leftist, sensationalist comment.

OK, lets see: "Turned AGAINST morality for the sake of a dollar"...

so YOU are saying:

Morality:
02:53 PM EDT/10:53 PM Iraq: Iraqi combatants among civilians
Fox News just showed video, supplied by Abu Dhabi TV, of Iraqis in civilian dress holding RPG's mingling among unarmed, out of shape, obvious civilians.
02:16 PM EDT/10:16 PM Iraq: Saddam's Imprisoned Children
Children freed from youth prison:
"The children had been imprisoned because they had not joined the youth branch of the Baath party," he alleged. "Some of these kids had been in there for five years."
08:24 AM EDT/4:24 PM Iraq: They're Praying Again in Basra It is a sound which has echoed down the centuries but which has not been heard here for 15 years - the wailing call to prayer

07:52 AM EDT/3:52 PM Iraq: Iraqis look for relatives in prisons
Hundreds of people came to the gates of a special prison here Monday, armed with hopes: Somewhere beneath the floors of the compound, they believed, a secret network of tunnels existed. There they would find the brother, the father, the son, unseen for years after being seized by government agents but surely alive.

Dollar(s):
http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/17/news/economy/war_cost/index.htm (one of MANY!!!)

Once again, NO VALID ARGUMENTS PRESENTED...however, I have refuted this rediculous assertion.

Your right, I am "passionate"...passionate that I endured five 7.62X39mm rounds, a shattered ankle, and several resulting surgeries, pins, screws, etc. to repair while protecting YOUR "rights". Passionate that this should have been FINISHED previously...on day 46 of the cease fire WHEN HE DID NOT DISARM! Passionate that MUCH of what is being said will and DOES, DIRECTLY affect our men & women defending your right to say it...and MORESO, their JUDGEMENT (say perhaps in engaging an enemy positioned on a HOTEL!)!
I am MOST passionate that I KNOW how it affects their loved ones here at home as those were once MY loved ones...they bear the brunt of the callous, uneducated, remarks with their entire LIVES on the other side of the world.

Am I passionate...you BET!

Where are YOUR morals?!?!

American Defender

I'm not leftist, neither do I deny you the right to your opinion!.

I actually agree with removing Sadam. I agree that he has committed the worst attrocities.

I am seeing this war from the outside as you are. I however read both sides of the war and then use my common sense and intellect to form an opinion. That is my democratic right.

Face the fact that America is making some mistakes and pray they are not repeated.

You will be the ones who will be looking over your shoulders for many years to come - looking for repeats of 9/11.

Calm / well thought out actions now will reduce the number of fanaticals intent on blowing you up later.

Take a lesson from the British troops - I have not heard much negative stories about them - yet they are fightin the same war!

Double_Black

Glad to hear you were in Cape Town - beautiful city, hey?

You must visit again!

Steve,

First (as opposed to Firstly), my apologies. My comments were CERTAINLY NOT directed towards you and I apologize profusely if that was the inference in the way I typed them!

I was merely attempting to point out that conjecture/perception based on (supposed in this case!) underlying fact, does NOT support a premise. It was CERTAINLY not in response to your question NOR an attack against you. In addition, his assertion that your singular post gave credence to his ridiculous assertions was simply beyond comprehension!

I have read MANY of your posts, and while I certainly do not agree with ALL of them, most are AT LEAST lucid arguments!

Further, that said (AND given that your comment WAS in response to what was perceived as a personal attack!)…you would be incorrect, as evidenced by my membership card to Mensa!:)

HOWEVER, as others have pointed out…I AM passionate as well. Unfortunately, sometimes passion negates intellect when dealing with issues of such far reaching consequences…and one so near AND dear to my heart in particular.

For this, my apologies to ALL Blogians (OK, MOST!).

Hi spinman.
"Two reporters, an Australian and a South African, who went on their own to inspect the damage to the Information Ministry after a second strike against it were expelled from the country."
Negates your entire case.
Every side is biased toward its own views on the war. NO EXCEPTIONS!!
don't spout the same old tired cliches about the u.s. being a bad boy.
and anyway, you said you were leaving this post. I guess you fibbed a little. Remember, little fibs become big lies, and then no one believes anything you say.
eh.

No offence taken, then, American Defender.