But...but...Hans Blix and the UN assured us that they don't HAVE any WMD's!!

Must be for that bug problem they've got in Iraq.

Orion

Now, be fair to poor Hans. After all, all he said was that they hadn't found any yet, and they needed a lot more time, a whole lot more time, to find some.

Ignorance is Blix

MSNBC is saying that it's pesticide.

Of course if you want to prevent a WMD attack you're going to act like you haven't found any yet, and spin away a story such as the one linked above.

Whack
We could have given Hans another 12 years and he still wouldn't have found the weapons. He went out of his way to let Saddam off the hook to disarm. He is one of the reasons we are losing men and women in this war!

As has been said in other thread (but I love it, so I'm going to steal it)

Luuuuucccccccyyyyyy....You got some 'splainin' to dooo!

Orion

Orion
I love that too

How long will it take for this to get reported on the news networks?

So... as of the time of this post -- 21:58 EST -- no major news site has this as a headline!

The smoking gun has been lost on major media!

"MSNBC is saying that it's pesticide."

Isn't nerve gas basically a pesticide where humans are the "pests"?

I understand it's similar to various insecticides and can be made in the same factories insecticides are made.

Dude
You are right. I could just assume in Saddam's mind that we are a bunch of pests right now.

Orion - you are free to use that at any time!!!

Geraldo is BAAAACK BABY!

What did I tell you, he's got 9 lives!! He scooped everyone with a little intro to the famed 4th ID!

Schtoopid schlump.. I can't help but feel bad for him. He issued a heartfelt appology..

Poor Dope..

Dude: you're basically right. I love seeing how stuff like this gets spun. You'd think that they'd hype the crap out of any time at all that soldiers have to be decontaminated for even a possible nerve gas exposure. I don't buy the "but once we report on the first time he'll use them en masse" idea, either. He hasn't used them because the people he trusted to fire them on us three days ago couldn't pull the trigger. They choked. The poor dumb bastards.

Vicky,

One of the major networksi, I forget which, reported finding drums marked pesticide. But they also found some suspicious containiers that were partially hidden.

Dude:

You're right. Nerve gases are basically organic phosphate esters, as are some pesticides.

The same factory - basically a rather simple one - can make both materials, simply by changing the chemicals loaded into a reactor. Obviously, precautions towards personnel are more stringent when make WMDs, but nothing extraordinary.

My credentials for this post: I'm a PhD. in organic chemistry. One of my roommates in grad school worked with the more exotic reactions of these materials.

I know whereof I speaketh.

Yeah there's so much "agriculture" going in Karbala that they need huge drums of pesticide.

Its sarin. They're just not letting the cat out of the bag until after the war.

Dog barking on Baghdad cam... I didn't hear it at first, my dog did...

Even if it is pesticide, if it is a chemical that was being set aside for use as a weapon, it is by definition a chemical weapon. Saddam was not supposed to have chemical weapons of any kind.

Phred,

Thanks for the headsup on the baghdad cam. I just heard bombs in the background!

The story's running in other Knight-Ridder papers, such as the Miami Herald.

I think that the military is likely to keep a lid on this for the short term. Once the cat's out of the bag, Saddam has less of a disincentive regarding the use of these weapons.

And there goes the baghdad cam!

Chris,

Did something happen to it? I'm getting an 'ABC LONDON' test pattern...

Orion

wonder how long the cam's going to be down this time...

Fox has a camera up with night vision.

I lost the CBS feed.

Vehicles are starting to move on the streets again.

Keep looking for Marines to drive around the circle, knock down the statue, yell "hi mom!" at the camera, and drive away...

The military could raise a great deal of money by selling sponsorships for such things as "cruise missile cams," "JDAM Cams," or "Hellfire missile cams." Just imagine: "This cruise missile strike on Saddam's palace is brought to you by ...."

Phred,

May I pester you for the URL for Fox's cam?

Orion

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh my!! It's like what's happened to the Bowl games...
There was a JPG posted some time ago of an S-3 Viking covered with sponsorship stickers like a NASCAR Superstock - hilarious!

I'd love that...I can just see "FedEx - when it absolutely positively has to be blown up overnight - Tomahawk! Brought to you by Federal Express."

Orion

MSNBC is calling it pesticides, but I saw another report earlier where there was more to it on MSNBC too. I second the posts saying they don't want it to get out, because if it does there's no incentive for Iraq not to use them. I think what supports that is a CNN camermans specifically mentioned in the article as having been tested positive, yet no word on CNN about it at all.

Orion - I'm watching on Fox News. My bad.

They had it up in a window, now they've got an armchair general.

Hopefully they'll pull it back up again.

Fox needs to beef up their infrastructure to support streaming video. They're behind the curve.

In 1986 when the Challenger exploded, I told all of my friends that we would put a man on Mars the day he took off in a rocket with "Budweiser" spray painted on the side. Four months of external cameras showing the ship and the log would pay for the trip.

The first footprint on Mars would leave a Nike impression. That's $20billion, right there.

The Military should do this, as well, but the lefties would boycott products.

A definition of a "G-series" nerve agent:

Lethal chemical warfare agents that work by inhibiting the proper functioning of the cholinesterase enzymes needed to transmit nerve impulses throughout the body. These agents affect the functioning of all bodily systems, including the eyes, nose, throat, lungs, and muscles. G-series nerve agents include tabun (GA), sarin (GB), soman (GD), and cyclosarin (GF). The normal sequence of symptoms from a vapor exposure is a runny nose, tightness of the chest, dimmed vision and pinpointed eye pupils, difficulty breathing, drooling and excessive sweating, nausea, vomiting, cramps, involuntary defecation and urination, twitching, jerking and staggering, headache, confusion, drowsiness, and coma. Breathing ceases; death follows

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/fox_vehicle_ii/fox_vehicle_ii_taba.htm

Phred,
No worries - thanks though! I agree - I get so fed up watching the massive defeatism on CNN and the other stations. The better Fox gets the happier I am.

Orion

Righto phred - I was stuck at my computer away from a TV on the night the war started. I watched streaming video on MSNBC mainly and CNN too. Fox didn't have a bit of streaming vid. Kinda weird since they're now the most popular cable news channel and not some low-budget also-ran.

CNN's Baghdad camera is up. You might have to sign up for Real plus

So is it confirmed yet?

Explosions heard on CNN Baghdad cam.

here's a diversion in the mean time:

http://www.chinpokomon.com/archives/000435.html#000435

I don't think it will be confirmed until:
1) The regime is gone
2) We're ready to dump a whole pile of documentation

Phaid: "Ignorance is Blix"
Heh. You've coined a phrase that will last.

Just for a change of pace:

The remaining Iraqi leadership called together the dozen remaining Sadaam lookalikes and told them that there was some good news and bad news.

"What's the good news?" one of the lookalikes asked.

"Sadaam, our blessed leader, is alive."

"Thank Allah!" the lookalikes proclaimed. "Now, what's the bad news?"

"He's lost an arm, a leg, and an eye."

Many pesticides and industrial chemicals can cause Sarin false positives. From the latest reports that is what happened. This make 14 Chem bio WMD "finds" turned out to be false. Each one drops our credibilty.

HELP! All cams dead?

CNN Baghdad cam just went black. Does anyone know of a URL that works? ABC weenied out early. CBS stopped earlier today. MSNBC2 isn't working.

So now, when it gets interesting, the web cams die.

Sigh!

CBS reported at 9:30 pm that members of 101st Airborne are being treated for sarin exposure.

There is no question that such agents have been made and are hidden in Iraq.

It's not likely that they'll be found, though, while we are in the midst of fighting. That's not the chief concern at the moment.

With the exception of the solvents, carriers and surfactants, almost any organo-phosphate pesticide is a "nerve agent" requiring treatment upon exposure. For example, Phosdrin is so deadly that a drop of the technical chemical, atomized as an aerosol could take out several people. I know someone who suffered long term neural problems from accidental exposure without timely treatment. I've been stuck with the atropine needle once after pulling an agricultural helicopter pilot out of a downed Bell 47G. Bad mojo, worse shit.

Orion please stop signing your posts... they're signed for you when you fill in the "Name" box. I know it's exciting to see your name on the pumpooter scween, but once per post will have to do.

Been a while since my organo chem but seems to me that w/right equip and the right "high grade pesticide" it would'n take much to morph a real-deal WMD. The molecules are VERY similar.