Gawd Dammit! When are we going to realize it's not a religion but a mind set we are fighting???????????????? ARGH!!!!!!!!!!

You know, if all the whack job Islamo-Fascists gather in one location, it will be much easier to remove them from the planet. A sort of Darwinizing of their population.

Ach, Mister Ghost, you beat me to it!

I suggest that when they gather to make their journey, we allow them to board those three "mystery ships" (whatever happened to them, anyway?) and conduct a sort of viking funeral.

Are these the same 15,000 Indonesians who vowed to fight against the US in Afghanistan a year or two ago?

And how do they suppose they will get to Iraq? Is their a non stop daily flight to Bagdad International? Will they charter a cargo ship to drop their of at Port Basra? Double Decker Roadmaster buses?

Cool!

Exactly how do they plan to get there? I hear the port is closed to cruise/troop ships, although if they fly in, I'm sure the USAF will be glad to help out with ATC...

They don't learn. All those Saudi Al Qa'eda recruits who breathed their last in Afganistan...
How long till Muslims learn not to go looking for trouble?

Ankchank, that's what I was wondering. Do they think the coalition forces are going to just step aside and say, "Oh no, please, after you."

I mean, really.

It's not a mindset. It's a religion. The members of the religion in question happen to have a particular mindset. They are nuts. Nuttiness born of ignorance, and hate. We have lots of highly ignorant, very hateful people in our own country, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

The extremists' hate might be irrational, but how rational is ours? of course we have reasons, i know 'em all. but the point is so do they. so you need more than that. I happen to agree with our reasons, but that's just me speaking. what makes my (or your) opinion any more valid than theirs.

I'm impressed by anyone who'd die for what they believe in. It's an easy thing to say, but a hard thing to do (as some of them perhaps found that out in afghanistan). they perceive, not 100% incorrectly, that a war is being waged upon their religion... what can ya do?

We have lots of highly ignorant, very hateful people in our own country, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

Why can't we quickly judge both groups?

...what makes my (or your) opinion any more valid than theirs[?]

What makes two greater than one, firefighters more noble than torturers?

I'm impressed by anyone who'd die for what they believe in.

"Suicide-bombers" impress you?

they perceive, not 100% incorrectly, that a war is being waged upon their religion

By what percentage, then, are they incorrect?

Golly, I don't think there are enough airplanes in Indonesia to hijack. I know. We'll all go to LA and hijack them there.

what can ya do?

Ya can refuse to protect a dictator whose thugs kill POWs.

oscar-Suicide bombers do impress me, sort of. I think a simillar comment signalled the end of Bill Mahr (or however you spell it) and Politically Incorrect. Wuthout condoning or agreeing or anything, ya gotta admit, that takes more chops than any of us have got. You can admire that, and still be against them/it etc.

We can be quick to judge, but you might not like what you find. There are lots more of these people than crazed eco-terrorist hippies, rednecks, neo-nazies, etc. You most likely work with, fraternize with, etc. with some of the people I'm talking about.

I don't have a % number for you, but i mean, c'mon. Of course we aren't going to SAY we're attacking islam, and i don't believe we are at all. But you can at least see how it would look that way on the other side of the gun barrel.
I mean, Iraq has nothing to do with our war on terror. Afghanistan, sure, but try telling that to the avg. afghani (maybe his sister can go to school now, but his life still sucks).
The US's professed goal is to spread democracy in the region. that's great, but what would this democracy (so far forcibly) be replacing? "religious" rule. "religious" or Religious, voila, there's your war on islam, if you want to see one.

2)if you want to go after all the bad guys, the US'll have its hands full for a very long time. If you think that's what this is about, you're kidding yourself. First we should start by taking out all the dictators that we put in.

I come from Indonesia and nah, no one is going to Iraq from Indonesia anytime soon.

First, there's just no cheap way to get there..and we are pretty broke.

Two, Arab is not commonly spoken in Indonesia except for reading Al-Quran, which is like learning Latin in your highschool (how many of you still remember Latin). Nor is English. How do you communicate with the Iraqis?

Three, you can't take the figure of 15,000 registration seriously.

Four, we have 200 millions Muslims in Indonesia (secular country with the largest Muslim population in the world) and our anti-war/peace protest are pretty benign compared on what you have in the middle east, or TimeSquare for that matter. Yeah, out of 200 million you'll have a couple of wackhos, but hey, which country doesn't?

Five, nah, there just no love for Saddam in Indonesia. There's not much love for the US either (more than French, less than Britain). But those aren't good enough reason to go and get shot at. We are pretty reasonable people.

Six, it's pretty hard to become a Islamic radical in a country where prostitution is legal.

peace out.

Gregoire, I'm glad you responded, but I have a few more responses of my own:

Wuthout condoning or agreeing or anything, ya gotta admit, that takes more chops than any of us have got. You can admire that, and still be against them/it etc.

Do you admire their means or their ends?

We can be quick to judge, but you might not like what you find.

Did I write anything to make you expect otherwise?

You most likely work with, fraternize with, etc. with some of the people I'm talking about.

In Manhattan? Most likely not.

Of course we aren't going to SAY we're attacking islam, and i don't believe we are at all.

So they're 100% incorrect, then?

if you want to go after all the bad guys, the US'll have its hands full for a very long time.

All, alas, probably not. Many probably. We've been warned that it will take a very long time.

First we should start by taking out all the dictators that we put in.

Put in?

A rational person cannot be impressed by suicide bombers. A suicide bomber is *dedicated* to the destruction of values (with destruction being the goal); i.e. the bomber sacrifices his life, and a sacrifice means to take a lesser value over a greater value (which means the action is inherently evil).

And no, coalition troops aren't sacrificing their lives. They're fighting for their own security and freedom (and as a consequence, protecting the rest of us), i.e. they're not willing to live as slaves - they're choosing a greater value (freedom), over a lesser value (slavery). Their actions are that of rational self-interest.

A rational person seeks to acquire, maintain and appreciate values (e.g. happiness, prosperity, freedom, love, friendship, etc.), not be impressed by their destruction.

A suicide bomber is not brave, he (or she) is irrational, and it takes no bravery to be such.