My friends, the high road may be harder, but it leads to a better place.

Is that why the banned Moore from the convention? Is that why moveon.org was condemned for bushitler?

Posted by: jones at July 29, 2004 10:58 PM

Jones - You do realize that the bush-hitler ‘moveon’ ad was nothing of the sort, right? (A moveon ad, never shown, was a submission to the bush in 60 seconds competition, didn’t even come close to winning)

Posted by: Lakhim at July 29, 2004 11:07 PM

Of course Not. Democrats are TOTAL LYING HYPOCRITES. They have been for all of my lifetime.

Posted by: leaddog2 at July 29, 2004 11:07 PM

..wasnt impressed in the least…by the way the crowd was yawning they werent either…

Posted by: Rob_NC at July 29, 2004 11:08 PM

çÖÖçÜü Y Üü, !

FALSE BILLIONAIRES ATTACKED BY IRAQ

Iraq, a country with both a President and a Prime Minister, both who are embroiled in a life and death
Struggle with the villians of humanity for the Life, Liberty and Freedom of their People, two days ago launched an Independent attach on the False
Billionaires. ( ! ) Details are not available.

MRA

-*

George Bush* is going to kick your ass. (: With my blissings.. :)

*With the right role of government in regulation.

“The agenda of these particular billionaires runs contrary to the interests of the American People. Like in Spain their reign is mostly down the drain. ” MRA

” Simpletons; I agree with you. You exhibit no symptoms of any grasp of reality. “
MRA on ” The False Pretenses of the false billionaires.” from “The Role of Greenback”

” Where’s the BIAS? What’s Right ? ” MRA’s Professor of Law, D. V. M., M. D., P. H. D. Nobel Prize Winner, Dr. of Comparative Religion, V. C., G. M. H., O. C., Boy Scout and friend.

Conclusion: Improper use of Smear Gelt* in action.
*Grease Money

Not So Kindly
Augurwell esq.
Chesshire
GES*G911

Caught Some One’s Message exception.

Posted by: augurwell at July 29, 2004 11:09 PM

..whew..mama “T” posting on the CP….
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=SwiftPhoto

Posted by: Rob_NC at July 29, 2004 11:12 PM

You are right Rob NC.

I can’t wait to hear the frisking of his speech. Not only was it non-eventful and not motivational, he placed into the fray some issues that are now fair game. Alan will post the text of the speech, and I can’t wait to hear the rebuttal!

Actually, Kerry sounded like he was promoting Bush for the most part.

Posted by: TexasGal at July 29, 2004 11:14 PM

I liked the bit about cleaning up hair pollution. One’s appearance is important.

Posted by: bananas at July 29, 2004 11:37 PM

Lakhim,

It was in competition, it was on the website a week ago.

Did Kerry ever condemn it? Will he?

Posted by: jones at July 30, 2004 12:25 AM

You heard that too Bananas? I thought I mis-heard his misgivings about HAIR pollution!! ha ha ha
The Kyoto Convention would come down on him hard just for all that hair spray use between him and pretty boy! There will be more bounce in their hair than there will be from the electorate. They may have tried to put on a false face, but America knows they are pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and anti-war. A bunch of pacifists trying to look tough… ha ha ha I think I saw Dennis Kucinich leaving with Barney Frank…whats up with that?

Posted by: dickmr at July 30, 2004 01:13 AM

Well, I missed the speech - went to see “The Manchurian Candidate” (a poor remake of the original ’50s classic filled with thinly veiled propaganda). However, if these two lines are examples of the best Kerry had to offer, it sounds like he flopped - big time!

Posted by: Jim at July 30, 2004 02:39 AM

It wasn’t that bad of a speech, but I do think that Edwards was more inspiring, but thats just in his nature. As a speaker Kerry is kind of dry, while Edwards is a lot more energetic.

Posted by: rjsfg4 at July 30, 2004 09:23 AM

what is interesting is how the speech is being dissected everywhere. I ignored the speech since my mind is clear about this election, but I am enjoying to comments being posted in it’s aftermath.

Posted by: skip at July 30, 2004 10:06 AM

It’s just too bad that Edwards has so little to actually offer as a candidate. All fluff and no stuff.

Chads

Posted by: Chads at July 30, 2004 10:06 AM

My GOODness!

To hear the comments hereon, you’d think we had a bunch of blind partisan types keyed to the talking points from the RNC.

Nah — that could Never be the case, Right?

Face it — it was a Fine speech. It was well framed, it hit the stuff he should have hit and the context was also well done.

I rather liked his having his Actual Crew from the swift boat standing with him. If you want to know the real worth of an officer, ask the folks who actually served with him — and not a bunch of others who weren’t on the same boat.

If you read the comments from the Chattering Class this ayem, they are strangely muted — mostly a begruding admission that yes — Kerry did well last night.

Just gotta ruin your whole weekend, I’d guess.

Posted by: Don at July 30, 2004 10:15 AM

Posted by: Don at July 30, 2004 10:15 AM

I rather liked his having his Actual Crew from the swift boat standing with him. If you want to know the real worth of an officer, ask the folks who actually served with him — and not a bunch of others who weren’t on the same boat.

DAMN. It is official…HELL hath frozen over. I ACTUALLY AGREE with Don.

HOWEVER, thankfully it is quickly thawing from the counter-clockwise spin and hot air. To wit:

While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound — he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like ‘Forget it.’ He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

— Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

“My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in ‘68 and ‘69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy… if a man like that can’t handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?”

— Steven Gardner

Posted by: DevilDoc at July 30, 2004 10:28 AM

DevilDoc Thanks. You saved me a bunch of keystrokes.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at July 30, 2004 10:46 AM

Cap’n…not a problem at all, ANYTIME!

BTW- “You’ve got mail!” (HOPEFULLY!)

Posted by: DevilDoc at July 30, 2004 10:51 AM

Is it just me, or did anyone else feel that some of Kerry’s gestures were as stiff and artificial as the 1st-generation Epcot robots?

Watching Kerry, I couldn’t help but wonder if he was a step behind Pinocchio on the plot development.

Watching Kerry try to channel Kennedy (John, not Ted) was painful, like when Nixon went on “Laugh In” because he wanted to look cool. Kerry and Charisma just don’t mix.

Posted by: DJDrummond at July 30, 2004 10:57 AM

How do you get the Purple Heart? As a general rule, the medics to whom you go for treatment submit the forms automatically. That’s how it worked in my unit, anyway.

As medals go, it ain’t much anyway. All it proves is that at some point, you’ve successfully been a target.

But why should you necessarily believe some guy who wanders in, 30+ years After the event, with an obvious political chip on his shoulder, and attempts to do a number on a fellow veteran? Ever just consider the possibility that (a) he was recruited for that and (b) that he’s doing his own Spin?

Pay attention to what Kerry’s own guys say — and not every clown coming down the road. It’d be an odd officer that didn’t have Someone complaining about him, one way or another. I probably have two or three guys from my own little group who, if given a chance, would try to get on my case for some supposed long-forgotten grudge now three decades old. That’s part of the risk of being a good NCO — some of the guys you are responsible for don’t take kindly to being told what to do and when to do it. But it would matter no more than these otherwise baseless charges. If Kerry’s guys praise him, how is that not good enough for such as y’all?

I spent the day yesterday doing a community festival in a nearby town while working on a political campaign. I was next to the American Legion booth/tent (staffed mostly by WWII and Korean War guys — nice folks) and we discussed some of the strangeness of those whom we commanded and who commanded us. We recounted at considerable length stories that went both ways. It is ever thus in warfare, and of no particular surprise.

Across from us was the National Guard tent — they were featuring a rock climbing wall for the kids and the 2-minute PT drill for others. Good guys — a tad youngish, but they were a credit to their uniforms during the festivities. And we had some nice talks as well — they recounted their stories from Iraq and their frustration with their knowledge of how NG units have been jacked around without seeming reason.

I had expected some Negative reaction to Kerry. Surprisingly, I didn’t get it. One of the American Legion guys (showed up at 4 pm) asked the pointed question directly:

“I wonder how many guys lives were saved by Those Hippy Protestors and guys like Kerry, who finally told the truth about Viet Nam?”

Really — that’s how he put it. And the two other WWII guys responded in the same vein — each saying that so far as They were concerned, Kerry did the nation a service by, as I have suggested earlier, telling the nation things that its leaders wouldn’t tell it at the time.

The National Guard guys were even more specific. “I don’t understand how some veterans are denouncing Kerry’s service in time of war, thirty years later. How can they Do that? It seems shameful.”

And another: “Say what you will — if Kerry’s guys said he was a good and courageous commander, then that’s good enough for me. That’s how I’d view anyone leading Me into battle.” This from a guy who may well be led into battle within the relatively near future.

Precisely so.

If this sort of stuff comes unbidden from local guys in a small town American Legion Post and a local National Guard unit, it casts some serious doubt on the otherwise orchestrated attempts to “Do A Cleveland” on a fellow veteran’s military service.

Frankly, I think it’s shameful on its face. So should you. So should every other veteran and to be frank, every other American.

I understand Politics well. It’s not tiddlywinks. But for the Hired Guns of a party to attempt to deride the clear record and obvious testimony to that record From The Men Who Were Actually There, in the hope of thereby making a guy who ducked out on Actual Service, whose fellow TXNG members have some considerable difficulty remembering his being around, and who wandered off and just sorta ignored his monthly obligations while he worked on a political campaign in AL — no, that just doesn’t cut it for This veteran anyway. Sure — if you want to say that the ANG gave Dubya an honorable discharge and use that to justify his “service” at the time, have at it. But in the same vein, if the USN says that Kerry was an Actual Hero, then you have to accept its’ judgement in turn as well. You can’t accept the judgement of one military service without simultaneously accepting the judgement of another, seems to me.

Veterans are hardly a monolithic bloc. I’ve known that for decades as I’ve done Political Campaigns that have had direct contact with them. Clearly some veterans like to make a habit of being as overtly partisan as does anyone else Out There. But those efforts need to be seen in the same context as the similar actions of non-veterans doing Precisely the same thing.

If the USN says Kerry was a hero — that’s the appropriate entity with standing to make that determination. If it says he was wounded, then I’m prone to take the USN’s word for it rather than some clown who “remembers” it three decades later. If a guy says He Was There when Kerry saved his life under fire, then I believe it probably did happen Just That Way. If Kerry’s crew supports him now, then They are the guys who knew him best under the longest set of combat conditions — not some character who might have been involved in a training session for several days, and is now seeking his allotted 15 minutes.

Dubya’s Discreditation Campaign is not doing him any honor at all. Nor is it playing well with many of those who have served, who are now serving and who will serve.

Enough already!

Complain about Kerry’s policies as you will. That’s fair game. I have no problem with that. Complain about Alexandra’s see-through dress at Cannes, if you can get past the 15-yr-olds gawking at the site who tend to look rather overlong at such stuff. Complain as you will about Anything — but not his military record. That one stands unsullied, save by those who would tear it down for their own purposes.

Because on a straight Up And Down comparison of his military record and Dubya’s, there’s just no contest.

Posted by: Don at July 30, 2004 11:00 AM

LOL.

What a complete bunch o’horseshit.

I LOST COUNT of how many times that The Don™ either simply contradicts himself OR is simply guilty of UTTER hypocrisy. SOMETIMES both.

SO laughable that it is not even WORTH adressing further…except to say

And the gullible tend to grasp at every straw that happens to float by, and proclaim it as Universal Truth Everlasting

It so seldom is.

Hmmm, now WHERE did I hear that?!

Posted by: DevilDoc at July 30, 2004 11:08 AM

One last time, and then I’m through with this -

“How do you get the Purple Heart? As a general rule, the medics to whom you go for treatment submit the forms automatically. That’s how it worked in my unit, anyway.”

You would have no clue ‘how it worked’ in the USN, because you weren’t in the USN. Speaking from MY perspective (and I have that right, because I was both in the USN AND a Hospital Corspman), I know how the proper forms were filed. Since it is PRECISELY those forms which Senator Kerry will not release, ExcuseME if I question his motives, and yours.

Do not miminize this in your usual FauxIndignanceMode.

“If the USN says Kerry was a hero — that’s the appropriate entity with standing to make that determination. If it says he was wounded, then I’m prone to take the USN’s word for it rather than some clown who “remembers” it three decades later.”

Once again, you Freakin’Clown, I’m getting tired of reading you calling any Vet a Clown, so I hope you don’t mind if I return the favor…

“If a guy says He Was There when Kerry saved his life under fire, then I believe it probably did happen Just That Way. If Kerry’s crew supports him now, then They are the guys who knew him best under the longest set of combat conditions — not some character who might have been involved in a training session for several days, and is now seeking his allotted 15 minutes.”

Well, it least it’s now Character instead of Clown, but I recognize the dismissiveness right off, and you remain as you always have been.

“Complain as you will about Anything — but not his military record. That one stands unsullied, save by those who would tear it down for their own purposes.”

I am going to complain about his ‘Military Record’, because it is PRECISELY what needs to be complained about. There are a couple of good reasons why Senator Kerry doesn’t want those records examined, and it isn’t because some Vet has suddenly gone Alzheimer’s on us, and dreamed up his recollections as part of a RepublicanDirtyTricksCampaign to discredit Kerry.

If he can’t stand the heat…

The italicized portion Posted by: Don at July 30, 2004 11:00 AM

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at July 30, 2004 12:25 PM

Don, would you care to comment on the contention of many reviewers that Kerry neglected to discuss his senate record or his anti viet nam war activities?

Posted by: skip at July 30, 2004 12:27 PM

Don -

Sometimes reading one of your posts is kind of like trying to listen to a record (or CD) that skips. You know there’s something there, but it’s too disjointed to make any sense.

Such as this: “That’s part of the risk of being a good NCO — some of the guys you are responsible for don’t take kindly to being told what to do and when to do it. But it would matter no more than these otherwise baseless charges. If Kerry’s guys praise him, how is that not good enough for such as y’all?”

Well, listen to and/or read what they have to say for starters. Of those who “served” with Kerry, the greater number are critical of his actions both while in country and after he returned home. They speak specifically of problems that they observed and concerns about his behavior that they have to this day. Their book Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out against John Kerry which is due out in September is already at Amazon.com Sales Rank: 2 - and the book isn’t even out yet.

True - Veterans are not a monolithic group. Nonetheless, you can’t discount the compelling statements of those who were in Vietnam with Kerry as well as those who felt betrayed by him after he went home via his 3 PHs. Read the comments on their web site, “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php). Do the math. These are not just a few malcontents who didn’t “take kindly to being told what to do and when to do it.” (from your post above) These are not “paid for political hacks.” They represent a wide group of those who served their counry and what they have to say is important and cannot be ignored - no matter how much Kerry and his biased “crew” would like us to think and do otherwise.

Posted by: Jim at July 30, 2004 12:30 PM

His first PH was from a shrapnel wound right? What were his other 2 from?

Posted by: rjsfg4 at July 30, 2004 12:44 PM

But why should you necessarily believe some guy who wanders in, 30+ years After the event, with an obvious political chip on his shoulder, and attempts to do a number on a fellow veteran? Ever just consider the possibility that (a) he was recruited for that and (b) that he’s doing his own Spin?
Pay attention to what Kerry’s own guys say — and not every clown coming down the road

Cap’n/Jim,
Isn’t it interesting (and downright HILLARIOUS!) that we SHOULD “believe some guy(s) who wander in, 30+ years After the event, with an obvious political chip on his (THEIR) shoulder, and attempts to do a number on a fellow veteran” when they stand BESIDE Kerry…HOWEVER, the remainder are simply “clowns coming down the road”!!!

Hmmm, I wonder if there is a “possibility that (a) he was (THEY WERE!) recruited for that and (b) that he’s (THEY!) doing his own Spin?”?!?

Yes, hypocrisy at it’s finest.

Reminds me of some long ago training… evade, adapt, survive. Create angles between yourself and your pursuer. Except in The Don’s case it’s avoid, bend, and befuddle (i.e. Red Herring!)…and BOY does he try to create those angles!!!

Posted by: DevilDoc at July 30, 2004 12:57 PM

Actually Don, the reaction I’m hearing to the Kerry speech is actually going to make my weekend. It seems that even the liberal press is panning it.

But please Don, keep on keeping on, ok?

Posted by: skip at July 30, 2004 03:14 PM