Ralph, you’re a liability now. The DNC’s looking to lock in every possible vote they can get - and if it means you get edged out… well, you can understand how important it is that Anybody But Bush get elected, right?

I mean, what’s more important? You gotta get your priorities straight, man.

Sigh.

The DNC’s all for the little guy, until he gets inconvenient.

J.

Posted by: JLL3 at July 8, 2004 02:50 PM

This is interesting. The dnc playing dirty tricks. I would never have guessed that people of the character of Ed Kennedy, John Kerry, Tom Daschle, etc., would stoop to those tactics. Next thing you know they’ll be telling both sides what they want to hear. What is the world coming to?

Posted by: No Party at July 8, 2004 03:26 PM

I’d like Ralph Nader to have a larger forum for making these accusations. Unfortunately he’s such a part of the lunatic fringe that few will take him seriously.

He was on Hannity and was just spouting off the Dean left talking points, no proof, no substances, but hey, it must be true.

So giving Mr Nader the time to complain about DNC dirty tricks also gives him the time to join the chorus of Bush is hitler. Nobody needs that.

Posted by: skip at July 8, 2004 04:13 PM

Heh! Must be hard, not to be taken seriously any more.

Posted by: Don at July 8, 2004 05:36 PM

Don….

My mind reels with sarcastic replies. Nah. Too easy.

But back on topic, what exactly does ol Ralph expect? I am of the opinion that we need more third or even fourth party voters and voices, but those develop from the bottom up, not the top down.

Posted by: johnnymozart at July 8, 2004 05:47 PM

JM: Take your best shot at Cleverness. It’d be something new, anyway.

There may well be a need for a Third Party. At the moment, the extreme 12.5% of the Left and Right have far too much sway over the actions of the two dominant parties, I quite agree.

If there is to be a third/fourth/nth party, it’s hard to see how it would arise and become credible from either the Right or the Left extremes. There’s no real room there in which to operate.

The opportunity here is for a Moderate sort of party. I suspect it will come, eventually, if one or the other of the two major parties doesn’t successfully claim that role.

Thus far, Ralphie does not present a credible claim to that niche.

Posted by: Don at July 8, 2004 06:12 PM

So…. he’s not a credible candidate. That’s for sure - but who would be in the 3rd party crowd? And because he doesn’t stand any real chance of winning, is it ethical and justifiable to do everything possible to knock him out of the running altogether?

J.

Posted by: JLL3 at July 8, 2004 11:23 PM

Don,

I addressed this in the “Edwards…Experience” thread. To have any chance a third party would probably have to form around centrist elements in the Congress and quickly develop a distinct party platform. There really needs to be a “precipitating event” and five or six people with enough stature as to act as a core. It would face implacable hostility in the media and immediate attack by which ever party held the White House. My feeling is that it would need to update TR’s attack on the Republican party in order to mobilize what have come to be called the Libertarians and enough rejectionist Democrats to survive. I can currently think of only one man with enough cross party appeal to serve as a rallying point for this core group and the formation of a Centrist Caucus in Congress. The person I’m thinking of is the “Most Dangerous Man in Politics” right now.

Posted by: Hungry Valley at July 9, 2004 12:58 AM

Yes, yeeees, Don, I know, one can only hope to reach your level of Witty Repartee, but one can try; what do you really expect from a wingnut?

As for the issue of new parties, I agree wholeheartedly, and I do think that a centrist party will arise, most likely from the ground up, state and local elections. I don’t think it can successfully take root any other way. Trouble is, so many people base their votes on the “What can you do for me today?” model. But the average American voter is also fed up with the partisanship of 12.5% on both sides as you mentioned. I don’t think we have reached the point where the latter has outstripped the former, however.

Posted by: johnnymozart at July 9, 2004 07:51 AM

JLL3: Yes, if it’s done according to the rules of the game. This ain’t tiddlywinks, and hard ball is played by Rs and Ds alike.

HV: There is No chance of a 3rd party coalescing around any congresscritter or group of them. Even the Libertoonians finally had to take solace in a guy who ran as a Republican, and who has modified his Principled Positions thereby. The L’s have tended to issue a press release every time the guy does something of which they approve, and try to take credit for it. But he’s an R now, so it doesn’t matter.

JM: I expect Nothing, and have never been disappointed.

But it is strange that someone who seems from the 12.5% speaks fondly of a centrist approach.

If you look at registrations, all the pieces are now in place for a centrist movement to begin. The NAV’s and I’s have a sufficient critical mass, and need only some means of precipitating a movement. Any initial win for them would be via plurality, not majority.

At the moment, however, the existence of a half a billion dollars in major party money is the major hurdle to overcome — not the noozemeeja. The latter will be just fine with a credible third party, since it will give them something to report.

Hereabouts, for example, the Libertoonians get much more publicity from Public Radio than they do from commercial meeja. Always have. And the local major newspaper covers them rather well — way out of proportion to their actual election results. I’m sorta pleased with that — I had to do a seminar with the Libertoonians a couple of years ago to teach them how to handle such matters, and they have been learning to apply the lessons. Alas, however, they have not been so quick on the fundraising discussion. (Libertoonians tend to be Economic Rationalists, and don’t contribute to their own candidates because they know they are Sure Losers. Self-fulling political behavior. I don’t know if they can overcome it. I suspect not.)

No matter — the Libertoonians aren’t going to be the centrist party anyway. They inevitably wind up telling The Voters that they are too stupid to understand why voting for Ls is the thing to do, and as a campaign tactic, that doesn’t have much of a payoff.

The future emergence of a centrist party remains open to conjecture. One of the major parties may take that role and assure itself a long-time permanent actual majority, or neither will do that and another entity will have to become the centrist party. So long as the folks doing it are prepared to work through at least two presidential-year election cycles, it could have sufficient legs to make something of itself. OTOH, if its initial supporters seek Immediate Success, and wander off dispirited when — as is inevitable at first - it doesn’t happen, then it could take a while longer.

But the bits and pieces are in place for it to happen.

Frankly, it’d be nice to marginalize both the Wingnuts and the Looney Leftists for a while.

Posted by: Don at July 9, 2004 11:09 AM