The OFC is a group opposing gay marriage.

Citizens for a Sound Economy opposes taxes.

If Nader were actually elected to anything, those groups would implode!

What they’re doing is transparent entirely.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 11:54 AM

Wow, imagine that, a complaint to the FEC. I guess the FEC will send out a troop of high quality peepee whackers to make those nasty conservatives stop trying to win.

Posted by: skip at July 1, 2004 12:09 PM

It’s one thing to “try to win” by promulgating your own beliefs and philosophies to The Voters, and seek acceptance of them.

That’s not what these folks are trying to do.

They are trying to make Kerry lose, and thereby back themselves into a “win.”

Not quite the same thing here, Skip. Sure even such as you can discern the difference.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 12:17 PM

Ah, little Donny-poo has his diapers in a knot over these groups doing something that is perfectly legal, so long as it isn’t coordinated with the Nader folks, and that Democrats have done repeatedly throughout the country, both in this election and past elections. In Pennsylvania, labor unions were having their members register as Republicans so that they could vote for Arlen Specter in the primary, with the intent of re-registering for the general election.

Whine all you want, but the answer is to convince people to vote for your candidate, not to bitch about crap like this. And your bitching might have some credibility if you hadn’t been ardently defending the b.s. lawsuit brought by Democrats in AZ to keep Nader off the ballot.

Go talk to your plants. At least then your hypocritical b.s. will fertilize them and serve some purpose.

Posted by: TL at July 1, 2004 01:00 PM

Trying to make Kerry lose?

Stop being a baby!!!!

What do you think most of the newspapers and elite media are trying to do to Bush?

Also, I do remember that in 2000 republican primary that allot of Democrats voted for McCain in the open elections. Was that fair? Oh wait transparent!!!

Posted by: Red at July 1, 2004 01:02 PM

I think I’ll have to take my partisan hat here and agree with Don, at least in principle.

(wow, three times in one month, Don, I better get out the Brillo pad again)

This kind of underhanded though effective tools are not what we want our country to degenerate into, whether a republican or a democrat does it. Red, and TL, although I agree with your points that you raised and think they are compeltely valid; all that says is that they are both wrong. Turnabout is not fair play here. Both sides are exploiting unfortunate loopholes in election law to the detriment of the country, in my opinion.

Posted by: johnnymozart at July 1, 2004 01:08 PM

TL,

Didn’t you know that republicans are not allowed to use the same tactics that democrats have used?

Heavens forbid!!! It is the end of western civilization!!! The republicans are doing to the democrats the same thing they have been doing to the republicans for years.

Red

Posted by: Red at July 1, 2004 01:08 PM

Jonnymozart,

If one side for years uses a tactic to gain and advantage against another group, they should not complain if the same thing is done against them.

I do agree that it should not be used (or done), but until the loopholes are closed it creates an unfair advantage if only one side uses a tactic against another and the second party does not respond.

The sad truth is if someone finds something that works/is effective they are going to use it. I have a bad feeling that things are going to get allot nastier in the next few months (both sides).

Posted by: Red at July 1, 2004 01:21 PM

Nice try at Debate by Characterization here, fellas — but it’s content-free.

I’m not the Least bit upset at what the consurrrvatives are trying to do by “supporting” Nader. The folks with whom I do UPW have long since figured out what they’re doing, and have moved — rather effectively I might add — to interfere with the effort.

Besides, among the Lefties within the D’s (I’m not considered one of them, just fwiw), the erstwhile Terminally Disaffected folks are pretty well unanimous in their willingness to oppose Nader this cycle, even after a bunch of them chose to do so last time. They have concluded that the RNCs funding and “support” of his insurgency from The Left was counterproductive, and this cycle they aren’t going to by into it.

Or, as they repeated almost word for word, “I’m never* going to make that mistake again! I figure at least a third of the folks made that admission and affirmation.

Me — I’m getting a sort of personal chuckle out of the whole thing. At one of the MoveOn.org meetings Monday night (It was right down the street in my neighborhood) there were no less than 54 people attending! Not bad at all. And as they discussed things with each other, they found — much to their personal surprise — that they were Not “the only one” in the neighborhood who opposed Dubya and was supporting Kerry wholeheartedly. So that was good.

The group was probably a tad over-represented with Tie Dye (four out of 54 — which is a Bit Much in this rather conservative and republican neighborhood) and a quick survey of the bumper stickers on the cars up and down the block showed a similar over-representation of Dean and Kucinich stickers. But they happily accepted new Kerry stickers, and there were a half dozen fellow veterans who said they want the Veteran for Kerry stickers that I should be getting sometime next week.

The success the R’s had last cycle with alienating The Left from the D nominee will Not be repeated this time around. That much is More than clear, even now.

I managed successfully to integrate the Move-On folks with the local county Kerry campaign (the miracle of the Cell Phone — I just dialed the Kerry coordinator and handed the phone to the MoveOn guy and they went on from there), so that link was properly forged, and the two groups can now share materials, information and their own efforts. The MoveOn group wants to do a New Voter Registration push in about ten days, and already they are starting to cooperate with facilities, setting aside Time to do it, and the like.

That’s the stuff of a proper Grass Roots campaign. This time, the RNC isn’t going to be able to interfere with it.

So, comfort yourself in your belief that somehow this consurrrvative support of Ralphie and the Twits is going to make all that big a difference, but thus far the indication is that you are simply Wrong in that. But do spend your money on RN. The more y’all spend, the better I like it.

From the sidelines, since I am not a volunteer for Either of those campaigns directly (save for purchasing the VfK bumper stickers from the Kerry campaign), were I to balance out the relative outcomes involved here, I am rather more taken with the efforts of The Left wing of the D’s to integrate themselves with the Moderates than I am of the transparent attempts of the consurrrvatives to try to woo them away.

It ain’t 2000 — that much is plain. The Left was fooled once. It won’t happen twice.

There may be some residual of the Permanently Disaffected remaining who will support Ralphie, but even if he weren’t in the race, they were never going to vote for either Kerry or Dubya either way. They’d have found some other Protest Vote mechanism.

I recommend y’all send Nader some more money.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 01:29 PM

look, it’s a high stakes rough and tumble campaign. Yes, there is the arena of ideas, but you know there’s the mechanical/technical stuff as well. Like walk around money, like get out the vote drives that only target demographically helpful regions, like paying bounties for every new democrat registered.

Is this stuff the best way to conduct a campaign? hell no, but it’s the facts of life and has been since the beginning.

Don you need to get over yourself and climb off the pedestal of self righteousness before somebody accuses you of being terminally satire challenged.

Posted by: skip at July 1, 2004 01:31 PM

Red:

The RNC is deeply disappointed that all of the NoozeMeeja have not become Dubya sycophants this cycle. Understandable — this time the boy has an Actual Record to run away from.

Try to understand — that’s what happens when you have a First Amendment.

No worries — if the RNC wants publicity, it can afford to buy it on its own terms. Even for Ralphie, if it launders the money properly.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 01:32 PM

I can’t imagine why anyone would vote for Nader anyway. Over the years, his extremist nature has become more and more obvious.

I think it would be next to impossible to prove coordination. The RNC has charged the Democratic party with illegal coordination with 3rd party groups, and they’re going to have just as tough a time proving it.

Posted by: Bostonian at July 1, 2004 01:34 PM

This is too funny! Kerry and the democrats are pathetic.

Here’s a guy married to a BILLIONAIRE, with the vast liberal media giving him FREE help as often as possible, with George Soros’ questionnable use of his multiple MILLIONS at his disposal, who has raised a record $175,000,000 (yes, that’s six zeros) presumably to get his “message” out - bellyaching about a small group of people in Oregon helping Nader.

Next thing you know he’s going to be whining that it isn’t FAIR that he be expected to take a SINGLE position on a given issue, or to come out an actually campaign so the public can see him in all his conflicted glory.

Talk about trying to back into a win!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jim at July 1, 2004 01:38 PM

Don,

I really could care less about what the RNC does; most of the people have made up their minds on which candidate they are going to vote for in this election. The last battleground is for the 5 to 10% undecided. If Kerry is so strong a candidate then he does not need to worry about Nader.

Thanks for the news flash Don, a First Amendment!?! We have one of those?!? I will alert the media!!!!! And Bush has a record? Wow!!!!

Too bad that you have not realized that probably we are wasting each other time. What we do here is not going to change anyone’s opinion/vote. It is mainly people having a little fun durning lunch.

As for a serious debate? Seems people are more interested in slamming one another than discussing things. But sarcasm is fun.

Posted by: Red at July 1, 2004 01:51 PM

I love the term used by the so called conservatives “elite media”

I guess Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, Joe Scarborogh, Bill O’reilly and Tucker Carlson, to name a few are not “elite media”?

As if Dan Rather, Peter Jennings and Ted Koppel have some Left Wing agenda. As if they’re not simply comforting ‘poster boys’ for the networks.

I guess the New York Times could be called “elite media” yet they rolled right over for the war in Iraq.

The only TRUE liberal journalist on TV is Bill Moyers and his show is on for one hour on PBS, Friday nights.

I guess you’re calling the “elite media” the “leftist media”

Here’s some stories that the “elite media” left out…

http://www.independent-media.tv/gtheme.cfm?ftheme_id=2

Posted by: D-nice at July 1, 2004 01:53 PM

Here’s a question Tom Brokaw asked Allawi:

As long as the United States military remains a conspicuous presence in your country working hand in glove with the new Iraqi government, won’t you always be seen really as an instrument of the U.S. military and therefore of America?

this is the type of leading/loaded questions the american media’s been using for a long time. This question is not only rude but it’s irrelevant. Of all the questions Brokaw could have asked, this is his choice.

it’s pathetic, just pathetic.

Poster boy indeed. Poster boy for the left.

Posted by: skip at July 1, 2004 02:24 PM

This reminds me of enacting a campaign finance law that bans soft money and then setting up organizations to accept soft money in greater quantities…

Or say hiring felons to gather personal information from potential voters…

Posted by: keith at July 1, 2004 04:23 PM

Don’t worry, Red — I have always said that bloggers are entertaining, and blogging is entertainment.

There is no Useful Political Work done on this blog or any other.

But entertainment is Never a waste of time, withal.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 05:03 PM

just keep it up polesmoke…Each word of your lugubrious posts means one more vote for Bush and one more former Kerry sympathizer trying to get the bad taste out of his mouth.

Posted by: hound at July 1, 2004 11:31 PM