And Jews support that Killer.

Go figure!

Posted by: leaddog2 at July 1, 2004 02:11 AM

In case, there is any misunderstanding, I consider
Nader, Moore, Gore, Dean, Kuccinich and McAuliffe Killers.

They DO NOT pull the triggers themselves, but their statements cause all murdering scum to rejoice.

They are guilty by Association.

Posted by: leaddog2 at July 1, 2004 02:15 AM

leaddog2, that’s a bit extreme, but i do so hate ralphie nadir (nah-deer) with a passion…his sister was my anthro teacher at Berkeley some years back…a class on the anthropology of controlling processes…then she spent the following year telling that same class what to think: that the palestinians are victims (and that alone) and the israelis aggressors (and nothing more)…love the hypocrisy…

just like the story of mr. nadir himself (one of many, and if someone can post a link to a webpage detailing them, i would be most grateful) being the watchdog of the working classes while preventing his own employees from unionizing…

Posted by: jovos at July 1, 2004 02:31 AM

Nader is an Arab of Lebanese descent.

Posted by: leaddog2 at July 1, 2004 03:13 AM

which is why i made it a point to mispell his name and give the more appropriate original pronunciation…mmgood

Posted by: jovos at July 1, 2004 04:28 AM

Shit. So much for Nader pulling anything but the anti-Semite vote from Kerry. I’d guess that’s still less than four percent of the voting electorate, no matter how batshit the left has gone.

Posted by: Mitch H. at July 1, 2004 07:11 AM

It just goes to highlight the racism rampant in the democratic party. Had a republican made those statements they would have been crucified, but since it was a democrat it gets a pass. The democratic party never cares about racisim when it is its own members lambasting a group that does not have PC protection.

To bad our “Right wing” press gives them a pass every time.

Posted by: Brian at July 1, 2004 07:45 AM

Well, the Democratic party only cares about racism if you AREN‘T a Democrat.

And of course, we shouldn’t forget that the Democrats were, for years, the party of the KKK.

FDR & JFK must be rolling over in their graves at what has happened to their party.

Posted by: eric at July 1, 2004 08:40 AM

with rhetoric like that, jow long till Nader proposes a “Final Solution”?

WPoS

Posted by: WPoS at July 1, 2004 08:56 AM

Nader has spooked me for years. It’s like he doesn’t realize that it’s not 1965 anymore…

I’d like to see both Bush and Kerry come out and condemn what he said. There are somethings that go beyond trying to win the White House. I think if they both showed a united front against this sort of thinking, it would go a long way toward improving people’s negative opinion of politicians.

Posted by: Mona B. at July 1, 2004 09:18 AM

I agree with an earlier comment: public figures who make irresponsible statements like this are committing treason. Those in our electorate that support these public figures are also part of the problem.

It’s gone beyond the politics at this point, these people are damaging our country and putting our soldiers lives at even more risk

Posted by: skip at July 1, 2004 09:33 AM

Jeez Ralph, tell us what you really think.

Gotta love it when the latent anti-semitism comes bubbling to the surface.

Posted by: Mark Buehner at July 1, 2004 10:14 AM

I had abstolutely no idea that nader was a radical islamic fundementalist, i mean he wears a suit!

Posted by: Ronin at July 1, 2004 10:19 AM

Ronin,

He may wear a suit, I’m sure he’s got a hooka stashed away at home though…

Posted by: kh at July 1, 2004 10:56 AM

“In case, there is any misunderstanding, I consider
Nader, Moore, Gore, Dean, Kuccinich and McAuliffe Killers.”

And you don’t call Bush a killer?

Posted by: Dnice at July 1, 2004 11:15 AM

Rakphie is becoming weirder as the weeks roll by.

But then, his starting point suggested that he’s about run out of wiggle room.

Too bad he never married. His kids would’ve been interesting to watch. But one supposes that if he had, he’d have spent less time becoming who he is.

A great unfortunateness.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 11:59 AM

Ralphie is becoming weirder as the weeks roll by.

But then, his starting point suggested that he’s about run out of wiggle room.

Too bad he never married. His kids would’ve been interesting to watch. But one supposes that if he had, he’d have spent less time becoming who he is.

A great unfortunateness.

Posted by: Don at July 1, 2004 11:59 AM

Don, what woman would want to make kids with Nader? /*deep shudder of horror*/

Posted by: Mona B. at July 1, 2004 01:10 PM

I wish we could all see a picture of Mona B…

Posted by: D-nice at July 1, 2004 01:55 PM

You gotta admit the left in this country is unraveling mentally. Gore has drifted out to Nader land, and Nader has voyaged out into nutbag land. Its funny how the political spectrum is a circle, you wander far enough left and you meet Pat Buchanon.

Posted by: Mark Buehner at July 1, 2004 01:57 PM

I wish we could all see a picture of Mona B… Posted by D-nice at July 1, 2004 01:55 PM

Thank you D-nice for making the argument FOR a comment registration system. I would say that comment was a definitely a TROLL and intended not only to bait Mona but also to insult Mona. Your skill at trolling has covered all the bases in the Comment Policy violations. Congratulations.

Posted by: TexasGal-© at July 1, 2004 02:22 PM

TexasGal,

While I’ll admit that my comment is off the subject and Troll-esq, any comment about a candidate’s looks and whether or not they are worthy of pro-creation is very distasteful and very off the subject. Unfortunately, the look of a candidate will be a determining factor in this day and age just as it is in everyday job hiring.

Posted by: D-nice at July 1, 2004 02:34 PM

D-nice,

In my reading of this thread, the discussion was NOT about Nader’s looks. You are the one who read into Mona’s comment which in keeping with the line of discussion was about Nader being WEIRD. So you can try and dance your way out of what you said, but you are the one who brought the subject up and slammed it at Mona as a personal insult and a troll .. and you just confirmed both .. again.

Posted by: TexasGal-© at July 1, 2004 03:10 PM

D-Nice,

Be VERY CAREFUL NOW, you have insulted the

Ladies!

The answer to your question is NO.

Posted by: leaddog2 at July 1, 2004 03:29 PM

Err, actually I wasn’t thinking about his looks. Don had said Nader’s kids would be interesting to watch, and I was just reacting to how completely weird having his kids would have been…can you imagine trying to get them into the car? They’d all be whining to sit in the middle of the back seat, instead of fighting for shotgun. Probably want a 5 point harness on their strollers and such, Nader being Mr. Seatbelt and all….

Posted by: Mona B. at July 1, 2004 03:51 PM

In case anyone is curious about the context of this quote of Nader’s, a transcript as well as a link to the CSPAN-archived video can be found at the Council for the National Interest’s website. Specifically,

Transcript: http://www.cnionline.org/hearings/muslims/transcript.htm

CSPAN Video rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04062904_muslimvote.rm
(Nader’s speech begins at approximately 48:30)

I’ve checked the transcript against the archived video. Passages below in italics are my additions. Most notably—in an apparently innocent accident—Mr. Nader’s first 2 paragraphs on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict were skipped in the Council’s transcript. The controversial quotation is in boldface. Times in parentheses refer to the RealPlayer link above.

(1:08:49)
The Palestianian-Israeli conflict is a resolvable one. For years, the peace advocates among Palestinians and Israelis have been getting together to design an accord. That accord is usually described as “a 2-state solution”: an independent, viable Palestianian state, East Jerusalem as the capital, adequate restitution for properties taken, and a variety of adjustments so that this can indeed be an independent state.

(1:09:24)
Security for Israel in such a situation is maximized. Israeli is the fifth most powerful military power in the world—-perhaps the modernized military power after the United States. It knows how to be secure. A secure accord between the two peoples living in peace is supported by a majority of Israeli and Palestinian people. If the United States Government was really interested in resolving that conflict, it would side with the broad, deep, and distinguished Israeli peace movement that just put 120,000 of its members in a square in Tel Aviv to protest the government’s policies. This is a peace movement nourished by members of the Knesset, former members of the Knesset, mayors, former mayors, former military officers, former generals, former intelligence officials, workers, professors, rabbis. This is not a fringe movement. And yet, these distinguished people are very rarely invited to testify before Congress—-very rarely invited to meet with government officials.

(1:10:48)
Not long ago, hundreds of Israeli combat officers and soldiers signed a proclamation which stated among others that they would refuse to fight beyond the 1967 borders because they would no longer participate in any effort to “dominate, expel, starve, or humiliate an entire people.” Those were their exact words. The full proclamation can be found on their website, at www.seruv.org.il. There is more freedom to discuss the Israeli/Palestinian issue in Israel by far than there is in the United States.

(1:11:36)
It is time for the US government to realize that this is not a local conflict anymore; it is not just a regional conflict anymore. It is a conflict that is producing flashpoints throughout much of the world and endangering US Citizens in those countries, US businesses in those countries, US workers in those countries, and endangering our own national security here. It is time for the US government to stand up and think for itself.

(1:12:08)
What has been happening over the years is a predictable routine of foreign visitation from the head of the Israeli government. The Israeli puppeteer travels to Washington. The Israeli puppeteer meets with the puppet in the White House, and then moves down Pennsylvania Avenue and meets with the puppets in Congress, and then takes back billions of taxpayer dollars. It is time for the Washington puppet show to be replaced by the Washington peace show. In that, we will enhance the freedom and security of both Palestinian and Israeli people, peoples around the world, and the American people here and abroad.

(1:12:58)
Let me conclude on this note: the pillaring of Islam is in the nefarious tradition of pillaring of religions. Every major religion has been misused by its own violators for violent purposes. We should remember the crusades. We should remember over 200 years between 1095 and the following 200 years. Armies from Christendom moved in to Asia Minor, slaughtering as they went. In one conflict, the Christian generals took out 2500 Muslim prisoners and beheaded them—just one conflict.

(1:13:50)
We should remember that the way to honor any religion is to practice what its practitioners preach. And there’s no better way to practice what its practitioners preach, then for the practitioners to preach what they practice. Its time for the American people to realize that Muslim Americans are only the latest religious ethnic group to feel the brunt of political hysteria and abuse. The Japanese Americans were put into camps in California during WWII, no due process. Men, women, children, families, hustled out of their homes and into these concentration camps. Internments, they called them. Years ago Jewish American’s were stereotyped during the communist witch hunt, as having more than their share of that ideology. Another profiling. Another abuse. Earlier, Italian Americans were profiled as anarchists carrying bombs underneath their big coats. Another profiling. Another abuse. Irish Americans suffered during the civil war. It’s now the turn of Muslim Americans. African Americans, of course, have always suffered… (1:15:27)

I personally think Nader’s comments aren’t particularly offensive in context, unless you find the general worldwide dovish leftist critique of Likud and hawkish Labour intrinsically offensive. But I leave it to y’all to decide for yourselves whether “puppeteer” was a poor-but-largely-innocent choice of words, a sign of knee-jerk leftist disdain of Likud, or a Freudian slip showing massive, odious anti-Semitism.

Posted by: Bill at July 2, 2004 09:40 AM

After getting a well-deserved rebuttal from “Moe at Obsidian Wings, I’d like to amend the last paragraph of my previous comment with the penitent words I sent to Moe.

Words can be weighted not just by abstract historical allusions but with mortal sin and innocent blood. Therefore, the fact that a person (e.g., me) agrees with a broad political message (e.g., the italicized paragraphs in the Nader passage I quoted in my previous comment), doesn’t mean that person (e.g., me again) shouldn’t forcefully condemn idiotic and offensive rhetoric used to promote that message, even if said rhetoric was used wholly innocently and only in passing.

So I’m writing to Ralph personally to tell him that his choice of “puppeteer” imagery was utterly idiotic and offensive even if he didn’t intend anything malign by it.

(And I certainly understand how others could well think Nader did have malice in mind when he used the word “puppeteer”. It would be wholly consistent with his rhetoric for him to be thinking something like: “I don’t hate Jews in general. Heck, those 120,000 peace activists in Tel Aviv seem like swell folks. Rather, I just hate the small cabal of Jewish financeers who rule the world by exploiting the greed and ambition of Gentiles. In short, I’m not anti-Semitic in general, I’m just specifically anti-Elders-of-Zion.” That would be utterly disturbing.)

Posted by: Bill at July 2, 2004 10:22 AM