I know most of the OR Libertarian Party candidates personally. I have, on occasion, given them advice on fundraising and campaign organization, at their request.

Being self-styled Economic Rationalists, they tend not to contribute to their own candidates, recognizing Sure Losers when they see them. And this in a State where a $50 contribution would end up costing them Nothing at all!

Go figure.

But they still tend to start their campaigns by asserting that The Voters are too stupid to vote for Libertarians. The Voters, reasonably enough, tend to act on that observation, and don’t.

If you study the OR poll results, as I have for the past 16 years at least, what you find is that Libertarians tend not to vote for Republicans or Democrats, and do Not “take votes away” from either party.

Posted by: Don at June 25, 2004 01:30 PM

I’m sure that last point would apply to PA as well (by the way, I’m an Oregonian by birth and upbringing and still refer to it as “home” and say “we” when talking about Oregonians).

I’m sure too that the Libertarians here are just using the argument to get Philadelphia Democrats, who act like a second Bush term would cause the stars to fall from the sky, to sign their petition.

Posted by: Nathan Hamm at June 25, 2004 01:48 PM

“Oregon Republicans Turn Out For Nader”

Ya, all 3 of them. Republicans left when the Californicators invaded and shut the lumber mills down by making WigWam burners illegal. If you are a SNOB [Society of Native Oregon Born], you know what I’m saying. Of course, grass seed crop field burning continues each late Summer, cuz that doesn’t attack the habitat of tree-huggers and liberals like a good “grass” crop.

City #1: Portland Metro - Major Liberal camp
City #2: Eugene/Springfield - Liberal Camp
City #3: Salem - Home of Oregon Bureaucracy
City #4: Medford/Ashland (whoo boy, a dangerous mix of cowboys, loggers, survivalists and hippies)

Now we’re down to cities with less than 70,000. That about covers it, I guess. Trust me, I know. I’ve lived my life in each of these cities, except Portland.

Posted by: Max Darkside at June 25, 2004 03:26 PM

I dislike the libertarian party because I dislike their party platform which is as confusing as stupid a platform can get. Why on earth do they want to grant sovereignty to the Native Americans? Does that make sense Libertarians? Carve up America into Indian Nations? Huh?

It’s been over a year since I logged on to their platform so maybe they edited that part out by now, I hope.

The Libertarian party runs on lies and distortions and ridiculous accusations against the Republican Party. They do more to influence votes for the Democrats than they do to influence votes for themselves.

Posted by: Jeff MacMillan at June 25, 2004 07:02 PM

MD: If you study the election results for the past twenty years, you’ll find that Marion County, within which Salem exists, regularly votes Republican.

The People’s Republic of Eugene is liberal; Springfield is not. Portland is liberal, however.

But your leaving was a definite improvement, overall.

Posted by: Don at June 25, 2004 08:34 PM

Don, I gotta echo your points on OR towns. It’s not a uniformly liberal state.

I grew up in a fairly conservative place (with a smattering of lefties) and noticed the Eugene/Springfield split when I lived there.

It is split, but, like anywhere, the cities lean liberal.

Posted by: Nathan Hamm at June 25, 2004 08:47 PM

Don,

Eugene/Springfield more often than not are combined as a “Metro Area” and the result is liberal.

“But your leaving was a definite improvement, overall”

Yup, now I’m in a swing state that was dumbocrat and is swinging right and now my VERY REPUBLICAN vote can make a difference. Hooohah!

Posted by: Max Darkside at June 26, 2004 10:45 PM

Don,

“you’ll find that Marion County, within which Salem exists”

I was talkin’ cities and Salem is where I’ve lived the most years of my near-fifty years of existence, dating back to the Columbus Day Storm. I know how it votes, fer sure. Marion County had plenty of mills shut down by the libs, just ask some old timers in Idanha.

Posted by: Max Darkside at June 26, 2004 10:53 PM

I’ve done elections and campaigns in OR for over 16 years now. I have a rather large database on each and every precinct in the entire state. I know how every precinct in the entire state votes. On the matter of how Salem votes, you are demonstrably wrong.

Salem does not vote Liberal. Its present mayor and city council is Republican, it is represented by a GOP state senator and two GOP state reps. Keizer, on its northern border, has a D State Senator, however, but his district overlaps into both Marion and Polk counties.

The timber mills, strange as it may seem, were not shut down by Anyone in Salem via direct political action. The Idanha veneer mill was under-capitalized and about worn out, when the USFS stopped logging in the nearby national forests. That was done via federal court action — not legislative action.

(My favorite trout fishing hole is very near that mill, just fwiw.)

Whatever it is you claim to Know, Reality™ seems to have a different take on it.

Posted by: Don at June 27, 2004 12:41 AM

Don,

We are miscommunicating, mostly my fault for having a little fun. First off, I was exaggerating to make a point. Second, in that I merely implied Salem voted liberal. I said it was the “Home of Oregon Bureaucracy”.

“The timber mills, strange as it may seem, were not shut down by Anyone in Salem via direct political action.”

But I believe many of the mills were run out of business indirectly because they were already on the edge of profitability and then had no economical way to dispose of their sawdust after the wigwam burners were made illegal. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it was in the late 60’s, early 70’s. Maybe it was a coincidence that the lumber industry started its slide at the same time.

“(My favorite trout fishing hole is very near that mill, just fwiw.)”

The Santiam has a lot of good “hot spots”. I’m an avid trout fisherman too. Since I don’t get there too often, there’s a spot near a power house on the Rogue upstream of Medford where I limited out in 5 casts routinely. Oh crap, now I’m itchin’… Dang.

Posted by: Max Darkside at June 27, 2004 01:35 AM

Oh, and I go over to Bend/Sunriver area from time to time. We have a cabin over there and I pull mighty big Browns and just-right-sized Brookies and Rainbows out of the Big and Little Deschutes. We built the cabin after too much camping in the sleet, snow and skeeters at Little Lava Lake.

I’m headed up there in August, no sooner cuz I live more than a thousand miles away now.

I told you I’m itchin’.

Posted by: Max Darkside at June 27, 2004 01:39 AM

When I was reading this entry, the thought did come to mind about how the Democrats could do something like this, with regard to helping the Libertarian and Constitution Party candidates to get on the ballot in their states.

Here in Illinois, Bush has actually had trouble being on the ballot, due to the issue of the RNC convention being after the filing deadline… Other states have had this issue arise regarding Bush’s ballot access, but in many (all?) of those other cases, the state legislators have remedied the problem. Tomorrow, there will be a regular session of the General Assembly here (they still haven’t adjourned!), and then is when the bill to allow Bush on the ballot may come up. Since we are in overtime session, it will need 71 votes (a supermajority) in order to pass. I don’t know what will happen, but it will be interesting to see.

Posted by: Aakash at June 27, 2004 08:32 PM