Why John Kerry would destroy our great Country!

1. Kerry has already sold his soul to many different individuals and groups:

Convicted criminals John Huang & Johnny Chung Clinton’s China-gate)

Former executive of China Aerospace (a People’s Liberation Army (PLA) owned company) Lt. Col. Liu Chaoying. This company makes China’s nuclear missles.

Convicted Election Fraud criminal Mark Jimenez

Pushed a vote to say there are no more POW/MIA in Vietnam. This opened trading with the US and gave Colliers International, a company run by Kerry’s cousin a $900 Mill real estate deal.

Pushed for Most Favored Nation Status for China…remember the campaign donations?

Recommended at least three people for ranking positions at federal home loan banks just prior (sometimes the day before) receiving campaign contributions from those individuals.

When a loophole was going to be closed that allowed American International Group to divert millions in federal money from a large construction project, Kerry blocked the legislation. American International Group then donated $30,000 to his tax exempt group and executives donated $18,000 directly to his campaign.

and on, and on…….

Kerry is emphatic about not “exporting jobs” but he cant get past the almighty dollar!: “Such holdings, through trusts Kerry inherited, account for a big part of his portfolio, at least $125,000 and as much as $650,000,” BusinessWeek reports. And “Teresa Heinz Kerry owns millions in stock in the Heinz Company, the ketchup and pickle empire. Of Heinz’s 79 factories, 57 are located outside North America, and 72 percent of its work force is offshore. John Kerry is, by his own logic, married to a woman implicated in acts of treason. Kerry’s defense of the nation from dastardly betrayal should begin at home.”

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/4/92200.shtml

Posted by: RedWhiteBlue4evr at May 5, 2004 11:29 AM

So this is the famous “splinter boo-boo” I’ve heard about?

It fits the phoniness that I’ve come to expect from him.

I hate to say this, but in the context of this and other things coming out, I have some doubts about his other medals too.

Having read his silver star story, if he deserved a silver star for THAT then I should have had a goddamned medal of honor for the stuff I did.
Hell, if I had been in charge of him at that time, I would have reprimanded his dumb ass for doing what he did; putting his boat and crew at risk for a bit of cowboy action that wasn’t even needed.

Also…
officers generally had a much easier time getting medals than the regular grunts did. Always was true and still true today.

To this old soldier, it’s looking a lot like Kerry was playing some real games to get ahold of all that fruit salad. You want to know what I mean, then do a little reading up on what it USUALLY takes to get a silver star, and see if that stacks up against jumping off a boat that you shouldn’t have beached in the first place, to shoot a guy who was already chopped up by .50 fire and retrieve and empty rocket launched.

And you civillian apologists for Kerry…?

I think we’ve heard enough out of you on a subject you know next to nothing about.

Posted by: eric at May 5, 2004 11:45 AM

Good Point Eric.

I was NOT going to mention that deficiency. However, it is a great idea for any Kerry apologist to examine the written record of any Silver Star description for a comparison to Hanoi Kerry.

Perhaps then (although it is doubtful) one or two of Kerry’s supporters will open their brains to what real bravery means. They have yet to face reality.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 5, 2004 12:46 PM

Any mention of veterans’ criticism of Kerry on CNN, Fox, ABC, NYT, NPR etc?

Posted by: Junkyard God at May 5, 2004 01:13 PM

Fox, yes. No one else, though.

Posted by: GDubya at May 5, 2004 01:28 PM

Funny, I don’t see all those lefties posting like crazy here. They’re too busy over on the “prisoner” thread reveling in their righteous indignation.

Posted by: skip at May 5, 2004 02:24 PM

skip, i dont think the story is porus, the lefties like to exploit any space they can to inflate B.S.

Posted by: matt at May 5, 2004 03:06 PM

A big yawn to this story.

National Review? Please. That’s almost as bad as publishing a story from WorldNetDaily… wait… you did that already…

Publish a NewsMax article and the freeper trifecta is complete!

Posted by: Vince at May 5, 2004 03:44 PM

Vince, you are not a Vietnam Veteran and it shows.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 5, 2004 03:59 PM

Vince, it is interesting that you can ignore John Kerry’s doctor, just because the interview came from NR. The doctor was quite clear in what he said. There is no chance that NR distorted this. The guy is on the record with his statement.

The NYT has also covered the story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/politics/campaign/05VETS.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1083787325-VQo3kNAs28h/okTvleWA2w

Posted by: Bostonian at May 5, 2004 04:03 PM

Vince, you don’t actually read NR or know anything about it, do you? They don’t really report much in the way of news,. What htey do is essentially commentary on news published by others.

Are you saying NR just made up the interview, or are you saying that because NR is a conservative magazine they’re not allowed to print facts that support their opinions about Kerry?

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 5, 2004 04:17 PM

The clear message here is this: Vince has nothing to offer in response. No cogent reason why we should doubt what this Doctor said.

so we’re treated to his world weary vacuous replies. Since he has no factual rebuttal to bring to bear his only other choice is to attack NRO’s standing.

It’s both predictable and pathetic.

Posted by: skip at May 5, 2004 04:26 PM

This doesn’t seem to add any real information. The doctor wrote down this description last year? If he thought this during the war, how come he didn’t say anything in any form then? Was he lying then, or is he lying now?

Posted by: Jerry at May 5, 2004 05:01 PM

you’re asking a truly spiritual question: if one says nothing, is one lying?

The people who are now coming forward have made it clear: they firmly believe that Mr Kerry is unfit. And now that the stakes are high they feel compelled to make their case. In the past it mattered less so nothing was said. nobody would have listened anyway.

I have no doubt that the Kerry camp will do everything it can to discredit these people so in one sense, coming forward is a brave thing to do.

But tell us, how do you arrive at the conclusion that the good doctor is or was lying?

Posted by: skip at May 5, 2004 05:09 PM

The doctor could very well be lying, but the fact that he didn’t challenge Kerry’s account of the way he received the wound, at the time, has no bearing on the truth or falsity of the doctor’s story. It may not have been his job to find out who among his patients were going to apply for Purple Hearts later.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 5, 2004 05:19 PM

bahahahaha! more desperation on the part of the right? wow, who would have thought?

quick, the war is going poorly, change the subject!
quick, the economy still sucks, change the subject!

bahahahaha, bush is going to lose in such a spectacular flameout, it is going to be comical. november can’t come soon enough!

Posted by: x at May 5, 2004 05:32 PM

In the span of 3 weeks the Command Post has turned into a Lunatic Farm. What the heck happened? Is it starting to sink in that Bush is going to lose in a landslide and the Bushies are going nuts?!?!

The story selections and the comments aren’t principled commentary- they’re just weird.

Bush has lost, but it looks like he is going to discredit the entire conservative movement with him.

I’m done visiting the Command Post - if I want to read about these right-wing-nut-job-UN conspiracy-Manchurian-candidate-like-stories, there are more entertaining sites out there.

Fall Preview:
“Kerry Landslide”
“Freedom Reigns”

Posted by: Dem Blues at May 5, 2004 05:35 PM

“I’m done visiting the Command Post - if I want to read about these right-wing-nut-job-UN conspiracy-Manchurian-candidate-like-stories, there are more entertaining sites out there.”

Google translation: ‘Shit!! these mongrels keep using articles that I can’t argue with (stamps feet petulantly)
No-one takes me seriously when I say Bush is going to lose (stamps feet petulantly again) Well I’ll teach them, I’ll tell them I’m not going to read their silly little site anymore, change my name and pretend to be another “new” reader. (Minces offstage - stamping feet occasionally as he goes)

“bahahahaha! more desperation on the part of the right? wow, who would have thought?
quick, the war is going poorly, change the subject!
quick, the economy still sucks, change the subject!
bahahahaha, bush is going to lose in such a spectacular flameout, it is going to be comical. november can’t come soon enough!”

Google translation:

“This is bad, this is REAL bad (gulps)”

Posted by: GLW at May 5, 2004 06:08 PM

Vince -
If you don’t have anything that refutes the facts, then just shut the hell up. Complaining about place a story was published, because you can’t attack the source or the facts, is just lame.

As to you other lefties…
And you deserve no better appeleation because you haven’t earned any…
I see you induldging in a lot of wishful thinking.
I wonder if you’ll be around to eat your words the day after the election…?

I doubt it.

Posted by: eric at May 5, 2004 06:53 PM

Eric,

I am somewhat concerned that most lefty lies may be believed by credulous idiots. However, since most of them vote Democratic anyway, it probably will not matter.

What I am curious to see is whether or not Kerry will survive the Demon convention? He PROBABLY will but I really expect a strong effort to dump him. Most professional Demon pols see that he is proving to be a Loser.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 5, 2004 07:52 PM

While there is room for serious questioning about any medals that Kerry received, I am also wondering about the process involved in the granting of these medals. As the husband of an active duty and deployed soldier, I could ask some of the soldiers I am friends with, but I would love to hear the opinion of the board.

Is there no oversight into who is granted medals and citations? A previous poster stated that he probably deserved much more than a Silver Star compared to what Kerry did. What happened to the system to allow awards of merit to be awarded to someone who did not deserve it? Do the commanding officers who are now coming out against Kerry have anything to do with the original issue of the awards?

Posted by: diskzero at May 5, 2004 08:21 PM

Can we start referring to “Botox Johnny” as “Self-Admitted War Criminal, John Kerry” now?

He admits to committing atrocities and/or witnessing atrocities that he never formally reported while in service. Failure to report a crime is to act as an accomplice in those crimes. Hence, the possible future leader of our great nation would be, in addition to being a narcissist and pathological liar, a war criminal.

Posted by: NuclearTinkerbell at May 5, 2004 08:24 PM

Diskzero,

As long as you have medals, you will have mistakes.

Google up “Heckling Hare” and shake your head. Congress revoke a bunch of CW MOHs, but I don’t see anything like that happening again.

Nuclear Tinkerbell- great NIC.

Posted by: jones at May 5, 2004 08:39 PM

Good to hear Dem Blues is leaving. I just came on and will read Command Post in his place….
After reading his crap, I think I will bring more common sense and civility to this place…now go shut the fuck up you liberals…and you too X…. ha ha ha

Posted by: DickD at May 5, 2004 09:01 PM

Wait, I have more to say/ask. I was wondering..since the President is now asking for another $25 Billion to continue our war efforts there is a new question.

This time will Kerry vote for it before he votes against it, or try to vote against it before he end up voting for it? Cripes sakes, only Teddy ‘the drunken murderer’ can answer that one for us!

No matter how John Kerry views this he is going to look like a dumb shit head…..and right after that I bet anybody 10 to 1 that he won’t even show up for the vote; so that he can claim either way in different places!!! What a weasel….

Posted by: DickD at May 5, 2004 09:06 PM

jones:

Thanks, I actually work in nuclear medicine. Not quite as cool as the ‘sploding kind. Interesting site. I’ll have to look around it more.

Posted by: NuclearTinkerbell at May 5, 2004 09:10 PM

diskzero,

For one, I admit I lack any knowledge on current methods and requirements for receiving military medals. I do know that a few campaign ribbons of the past were given to everyone even remotely connected to a campaign.

On a historical note, our nation’s highest award of today …. the Medal of Honor… was somewhat freely given out and (probably less valued at the time) when it was first awarded. However, that was in the Indian Wars over a century ago.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 5, 2004 10:34 PM

Or was that the Civil War. Perhaps, both. That changed before the Spanish American War, but this is a fascinating historical subject.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 5, 2004 10:39 PM

See Kerry’s speech today? The man is clueless beyond belief.

Posted by: MikeC at May 6, 2004 02:05 AM

This story keeps getting HUGE!

Vietnam Vet? No, I probably would have pulled a Bush and gone AWOL. I‘m not the warrior Kerry is, I suppose.

Posted by: Vince at May 6, 2004 09:52 AM

MikeC - Ditto. Sometimes I wonder if the man is just winging it or if he’s on drugs. Whatever the case may be, he does not present a coherent message - if any.

Posted by: BB at May 6, 2004 10:30 AM

Vince, that claim has been debunked. George W. Bush was never AWOL. Particular reason you feel to continue that fraudulent claim?

Posted by: Robin Roberts at May 6, 2004 10:37 AM

Robin,

Please explain his absence from duty. Please explain why NO ONE can account for him reporting for duty (save a dentist receipt). We have MANY people coming out and mentioning Kerry’s service, yet NOT ONE, 0 (ZERO), NADA, ZILTCH can support Bush and his lies. NOT A SINGLE commanding officer of Bush’s can step up and say ‘yeah, he did his duty and was a good soldier’. Nothing.

You don’t want to get into this discussion.

Posted by: Vince at May 6, 2004 11:09 AM

Vince,

Please explain why you ask these questions. Could it be an attempt to deflect attention away from the bad press your guy is currently getting?

Much as the other running dogs of the American left have done you are trying to start a different debate simply because you lack the facts necessary to rebutt the story that started this thread.

It is childish in the extreme. It’s sandbox squabble level debating techniques. The simple fact is that Bush’s record, what ever you think of it, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE. Hello, hello, we see you in there, hiding behind your “Oh, yeah?” debating technique.

So far the lefties here have gone from doubting the magazines that published this report to doubting bush’s record. While the first gambit has at least a tangential relationship to the topic, Vince’s stellar comments are just more smoke.

Nice try Vince, you even got somebody to bite on that baited hook, but eventually we all get hip to your particular trip.

Posted by: skip at May 6, 2004 11:16 AM

Nice try skip.

Unfortunately you didn’t read the previous comments.

1. I mocked righties and the loonie NR/Newsmax/WND trifecta of insanity.

2. Someone mentioned I was appartently not a Vietnam Veteran.

3. I said I wasn’t and would have probably gone AWOL like Bush.

4. Some person said Bush didn’t go AWOL.

5. I corrected them.

6. Now you’re here talking about Bush’s AWOL having nothing to do with this loonie story about slef-inflicted wounds. I agree, but when someone makes grievous errors in print they must be corrected. It’s not like I’m trying to cram in Bush’s drunk driving record into this discussion or anything.

:cool:

But like I said skip, nice try. The fact is, this ‘story’ (fictional) has no merit. It would have been on Fox News by now!

Skip, nice try. Keep trying!

Posted by: Vince at May 6, 2004 11:34 AM

As a Repblican, I find this very upsetting. Why the Bush re-election team continues this is a mystery. I thought my party respectted military service? The fact that Cheney appears to have worked to avoid military service and that Bush’s Guard service is suspect at best, I think that we Republicans should all urge that they stop this unpatriotic losing strategy. The tax cuts are great but Bush team seems totally lost on the global and political stage. Would anyone care to join a “Republicans Opposed To The Deficit” group if I were to found one?

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 11:44 AM

Yes, it is clearly the case: you basically know nothing about the facts in this case. The report casts F’ing Kerry in a bad light and the best you can do is this drivel.

Whatever vince, the comments you made are irrelevant and like most of the loopy left, so are you.

Posted by: skip at May 6, 2004 11:48 AM

I’ve had metal and other things that didn’t belong stuck in me, and it’s hard to tell how far they reach inside. Well it was for me, anyway, a doctor might know better. As far as going to a doc to have it removed, I’d give Kerry the benefit of the doubt on that one. The Purple Heart is another story entirely. One which is only told in fragments, so far. In my opinion, the stories look damning for Kerry, but I can’t yet say they are conclusive because of the fragmentary data.

How do you fire a mortar at close range? Direct fire? High angle, nearly vertical, and hope a puff of wind doesn’t drop it back on your own position? Are commendations applied for by the recipient, or does someone else recommend them for the award? Once applied for, what people look at the recommendation, and where all does it travel on its way to being accepted or rejected? Do any of those people live in unexpected luxury now? How much cash and/or influence was available to kerry during that period? There’s clearly a chain of evidence here, one way or the other. It should all be FOIAed by now too.

If the goal is to demonstrate, one way or the other, what Kerry’s qualifications are for office, it all needs to be tied together into a neat little bundle. That’s the only way you will even begin to convince the hardcore on either side.

Silver Star, Bronze Star (?), all three Purple Hearts, statements from commanding offociers, time in service versus claimed heroics, statements from those who served with him, and what he did during the eight months he otherwise would have been out in Indian territory, all wrapped up in one package.

Otherwise it just leaves too much squirm room.

Posted by: jeffers at May 6, 2004 11:48 AM

It really comes down to what folks pay attention to.

Since Kerry brought up (and does repeatedly) claims of bravery and sacrifice in Vietnam as a campaign issue, it’s only reasonable to examine those claims.

But if you read the fitness reports which speak glowingly about him (and I have), you must also listen to the comments of the men who served with him, including those who say he made up accounts of enemy action, created and signed his own after-action reports with no witnesses, and whose observed conduct is not as he claims. I have also read those accounts.

Then remember that this is one issue in a campaign with a number of important issues.

On the balance, this is another comparison where Kerry hurts himself.

.

Posted by: GDubya at May 6, 2004 12:06 PM

jeffers I for one say, screw that. He lied under oath, and now calls that an “honest expression”.

Medals, Ribbons, it doesn’t make any difference. He lied about us. There are a lot of us who know what the truth was and is. He doesn’t get our vote.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 6, 2004 12:06 PM

Oh skip, you make my job of revealing the silliness of righties so much easier :D.

:cool:

:cheers:

Posted by: Vince at May 6, 2004 12:09 PM

As a Screaming Sack of Noise and Smells, I find this very upsetting. Why the Kerry team continues this is a mystery. I thought they understood the military deserves respect, not mockery?

The fact that Kerry appears to have worked to politicize and grandstand his military service, and that Bush’s Guard service, while undramatic, is consistent and has no detractors among his fellwo Guardsmen. I think that we Screaming Chimps should all urge that the Dems stop this unpatriotic losing strategy. The tax cuts are great but Kerry wants to wipe them out. Kerry’s team seems to forget we are on a global political stage. Would anyone care to join a “Screaming Chimps Opposed To The Lies and Mockery” group if I were to found one?

.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 12:12 PM

Great parody, Zippy! I like people with wit. You did a good job there.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 6, 2004 12:34 PM

Thanks. Banana?

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 12:42 PM

Vince, you are not correcting anybody. You are demonstrating only that you are wedded to falsehood. In the National Guard of the era, missing drill dates was not being AWOL. George Bush has released records that show that he attended the required amount of National Guard drill. All the rest is your fantasy and your dishonest attempt to change the subject.

Posted by: Robin Roberts at May 6, 2004 12:42 PM

It bothers me, as a proud Republican, to see our party ran into the ground by this specific administration. We are the party that supports military service…not the one that runs from it (Cheney) or leaves early (Bush). Who can deny that during Vietnam that Kerry served his country with more honor than Bush and Cheney? What happened to Bush’s pledge to avoid nation buiding? What happened to spending control? I am affriad that George W Bush was more concerned with the guy “who tried to kill my dad” that the great nation we call America! We conservatives need to band together and form a nationwide group “Conservatives Who Oppose Deficit Spending and Nation Building”

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 12:44 PM

So you would have opposed the Marshall Plan?

Have you heard of the concept of; “Enlightened Self-Interest”?

Posted by: eric at May 6, 2004 12:54 PM

“Enlightened Self Interest” is that something to do with Bush’s Saddam’s “tried to kill my dad” statement? It seems to me that family fueds are not particularly enlightened. I feel that the “Self Interest” is evident and not good for our country.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 01:04 PM

Lincoln You besmirch the name. You cannot read. You have continued to post crap here which has been refuted on a daily basis. Hence, from now on you will be ignored as you’ve become a Troll.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 6, 2004 01:34 PM

I am not a troll…I am a Republican who has the strength to stand up against the free-spending elements of our party. This “take my ball and go home” strategy is very childish. My comments are on point and clearly stated, so much so it seems that the truth I present causes some of you to launch personal attacks just to avoid the issues. I support those who serve our country with distinction… reguardless of political party. Please stay on topic.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 01:45 PM

Every troll who comes here is a “republican” Just like all peace activists are former Marines.

How is defecit spending on topic on a Kerry lied thread?

Posted by: jones at May 6, 2004 01:48 PM

Lincoln:
Come back and debate after you’ve mastered noun/verb agreement and can do something more than spew regurgitated Rino rhetoric. Silly liberal rabbit.

Posted by: NuclearTinkerbell at May 6, 2004 01:55 PM

It bothers me, as a proud Screaming Sack of Noise and Smells, to see people pretend to be something they are not . We are the monkeys who eat what falls from trees, not the ones eho eat what others throw at us. Who can deny that during Vietnam that Kerry saw and killed many monkeys, learning nothing of monkey ways? What happened to Kerry’s pledge to have at least one position he wouldn’t wobble? What happened to his memory about testifying in front of Congress? When I scream and screech, I am still careful not to screech out something I wouldn’t want to try to explain later. I am afraid that George W Bush makes far too much sense, for Kerry to be able to stay in the race. Such a boring finish might be dull for the great nation we call America! We Screaming Sacks of Noise and Smells need to band together and form a nationwide group “Screaming Chimps Who Oppose Letting Kerry Completely Destroy Himself Too Soon”

It seems to me that monkeys throwing offal at each other, is still far above Kerry’s inability to speak plainly and keep his stories straight. I feel that the “Kerry Plan” is evident and not good for our country.

I am not a troll…I am a Screaming Chimp who has the strength to stand up against the truth-deficient elements of this site. This “pretend to be something, when everyone knows better than that” strategy is very childish. My comments are on point and clearly stated, so much so it seems that the truth I present causes some of you to launch evasive and nauseous posts just to avoid the facts. I support those who serve our country with distinction… although I will examien every one of their claims, especially when they want to play them to their advantage. Please stay on the tree.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 01:56 PM

Again, you can avoid the issues but I will not.

How is defecit spending on topic on a Kerry lied thread?

It is very on topic! This organized lynching of a decorated military veteran, a certified war hero, is flat out unrepublican! All I was doing is pointing out that there seems to be a trend of this type of activity: bashing war heros, spending like a liberal, and a massive bank busting nation building effort all go against the basis of our proud party.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 01:57 PM

Time after time personal attacks and no issues. This is at terrible omen if we Republicans have come to this. Let’s talk issues and facts not Carville-Style distraction techniques.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 02:07 PM

Lincoln I said you cannot read, and you continue to prove it. Please stay on topic? Geeesh. Okay - “Who can deny that during Vietnam that Kerry served his country with more honor than Bush and Cheney?”

I can. How many links would you like? Two? Two dozen? YOU CANNOT READ, and you prove it by posting such nonsense. He was no ‘Hero”. He lied under oath before a Senate committee, and maintains to this day that his testimony was “an honest expression”. That’s a lie, which compounds the lie that he told to begin with. You do nothing but deflect the very topic of this thread to someone and somewhere else, so therefore you are a troll. Need I prove it in some other way?

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 6, 2004 02:07 PM

Lynching?!? How is calling a duck a ‘duck’ a lynching? Johnny K is a self professed war hero. He decorated himself and bugged out of service in four months time. I would describe him as a war criminal and hypocrite, not a hero.

Posted by: NuclearTinkerbell at May 6, 2004 02:09 PM

Again, you can avoid the mookie fruit, but I will not.

How is lying about people on topic on a Kerry lied thread?

It is very on topic! This organized analysis of a very anal man, whose awards do not include a single monkey-related act or ideal, is flat out feline and french! All I was doing is pointing out that there seems to be a trend of this type of activity: pretending to have a point, disguising identities behind pretentious names, and a massive attempt to spin the discussion all go against the basis of our proud monkeyhood.

Don’t pay too much attention to the baboons, by the way. They’re just messing with you!

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 02:09 PM

Oh well, here goes:

There is no organized lynching of a decorated war hero. First because the crap that Kerry is dealing with is coming from the public, not the RNC. next because there is no decorated military veteran to lynch Just Jumpin’ john K. trying to live down his brash words from way back when.

Deficit spending is only an issue for liberals (and I include you Lincoln in this category) when there is a republican in the house. but I agree leave us eliminate the deficit by cutting spending. Bye bye section 8 housing (just for starters).

As for nation building: you are right it wasn’t what bush wanted to do but fortune makes fools of us all. There’s no choice in Iraq but to pull the plug on a terror regime and start from scratch.

Would I rather we were doing something else? Of course, but what’s going on Iraq is what has to be done.

And which proud party are you really a part of Lincoln?

Posted by: skip at May 6, 2004 02:11 PM

Skip says:
Would I rather we were doing something else? Of course, but what’s going on Iraq is what has to be done.

I have one simple question. Why is this what has to be done?

Just because I feel this war has more to do with Saddam “tried to kill my Dad” than WMD does not make me a liberal. I am a proud Republican and I do not appreciate what Bush has done to this great party. Sadly, the war in Iraq is lost…period. We have no chance to succeed in winning any more hearts and minds. Bush declared “Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers” but now even that argument has collapsed. Is dog leashing Iraqis what needs to be done? I don’t believe so…

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 03:05 PM

Lincoln if you’re a republican then I’m a Naderite.

What we’ve got here is a new twist on an old favorite: A sheep in wolf’s clothing.

Posted by: skip at May 6, 2004 03:15 PM

I have one simple question. When a monkey is dressed up in a bellboy suit and dances, why does that compel people to give the guy next to him the money?

Just because I feel this war has more to do with freeing a country of 25 million people than all the monkey-hating excuses from the deep jungle, does not make me a jackal. I am a proud Screaming Chimp and I do not appreciate what pretenders have tried to do to this great party, especially the dip and beverages. Sadly, the jackals think the war in Iraq is lost, despite all evidence of victory, democracy, and monkey love for everyone. We have no limit to what an energetic bunch of Chimps can achieve, winning many more hearts and minds. Bush declared “Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers” and he is right. Does anyone but wise monkeys and prudent primates listen? Do hyenas and jackals really believe they can pretend their spin is truth? The Silverback laughs!

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 03:25 PM

Zippy says that Bush was right when he declared “”Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers.” Either you have not seen the photographic evidence that Bush has apologized for or your idea of fun is naked all male pyramids and being dragged around by a dog collar. As an American, I find this behavior unacceptable and very Saddam like. Again ignore the issues and attack your fellow Republican if you will, but it is a losing strategy.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 03:57 PM

sooooo lincoln comes out with it: the old moral equivalence argument. Sadam can kill tens of thousands. the US has what appears to be a few rogue guards and they are suddenly equal.

Spoken like a true liberal lincoln.

I think the proper term is Sadamesque, if you want to put the fine, that is to say euroweenie, point on it.

Posted by: skip at May 6, 2004 04:13 PM

Skip: How many Iraqi civilians have died in this he “tried to kill my dad” war? Just becuase I am a Republican doesn’t mean I approve of the “collateral damage” Do you have an accurate count? Oh yeah, we aren’t keeping track of that. I wonder why? It takes guts to admit when you are wrong and this war has been proven to be a terrible mistake. You might write off the ghastly pictures as a “few rogue guards” but I don’t and neither does the rest of the world. I believed that America is above these sorts of actions. These pictures just lost us the war.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 04:32 PM

You see, it’s the pessimism that really reveals here.

Further, only a true liberal would have the unmitigated arrogance to speak for “the rest of the world”

The rest of the world, for all you know, faces deprivation everyday, so stick a baguette in it.

It’s same old hand wringing ain’t it awful nonsense all the other liberal geniuses share with us. Oh my, we’re not counting Iraqi dead, that can only mean the black helicopters come and pick them up before the CNN news crew gets to the scene, right?

Spare us the sanctimony.

Posted by: skip at May 6, 2004 04:50 PM

Lincoln, I’m very sorry to learn that a Republican would so shamefully misrepresent the foundation of this war as “he “tried to kill my dad”.

Posted by: Robin Roberts at May 6, 2004 04:58 PM

Tried to kill my dad war?

What? I was told I would get oil and slaves. I’ve been robbed! Why do you libs get my hopes up?

Posted by: jones at May 6, 2004 05:00 PM

Lincoln says that ripping the arms out of children because their daddy made Saddam angry, is the moral equivalent of some stupid guards mocking prisoners and hazing them.

Zippy reminds the court, that the actions taken by the guards, unlike the Iraqi actions, were not government-sponsored or ordered, and the guilty wil be tried and punished. Chimp Maximus reminds the court further, that the humiliation suffered by these prisoners, while unacceptable conduct, was no worse than the behavior of numerous frtarenities and sororties in the US, while getting tortured to death by Saddam remains a rather unique experience. Lincoln betrays his contempt for the US military, by equating the two cases.

Lincoln pretends that every issue stands against the President, when in fact his every claim proves he has missed the point, or simply cares for nothing but trying to “win” an argument.

Lincoln presses back to the lie, that this war is only a family feud, a slander too foul for even James Carville to utter.

Lincoln:“It takes guts to admit when you are wrong”

Here, Lincoln finally admits he doesn’t have the guts to admit he is wrong. But instead, he tries to pretend

“this war has been proven to be a terrible mistake.”
Only Saddam and the Baathists truly think so.

America won, and Bush won, and for the Left, that means they have lost, because only when bad things happen to America, do they feel they can prevail.

Oh yeah, I’m cutting you off the banana list, buddy.

The guys at Tropicana and Dole have a list…

.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 05:00 PM

Today another man was taken hostage in Iraq. Just when will the democrats stand up and apologize to the rest of us for this abusive conduct!?! This is gonna rebound and whip back on the dems with the fury of a country listening to attacks on their own. Where was the outrage of abuse on the dead….the Iraq’s were abused not killed…and the dems are crying over those who are in fricken jail fro attempting to kill OUR GUYS!
Go to hell dems and liberals, America will trounce you! BRING IT ON!

Posted by: DickD at May 6, 2004 05:25 PM

Okay…

Having a bad day, there, DickD?

[ climbs back into tree, signals Gorilla Corleone over to cover ]

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 05:29 PM

DickD????

The Iraqis were abused not killed? I think there is a lumpy soccer field in Falluja that offers a different story. If the jail is full of only the guilty then why are we letting so many of them go free now?
I am a Republican but it does not mean that only American lives matter.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 6, 2004 05:51 PM

Lincoln seems to forget that the thugs we killed in Fallujah were shooting at us. Raping and killing women and children is okie-dokie if you work for Saddam, but returning fire is a no-no for a Marine…

I’m just a stinkin’ chimp, but even I know what ‘Semper Fi’ means. It’s obvious Lincoln does not.

Somebody break out the Declaration of Independence, too, for Lincoln. He needs to read up on that one, too.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 6, 2004 06:03 PM

Lincoln, the monkey with the pointed head, said, “I am not a troll…I am a Republican who has the strength to stand up against the free-spending elements of our party.”

As the wolf told Little Red Riding Hood from behind the sheep’s clothing……So you were on the front lines fighting for justice during the Clinton rapeing and pillaging of this country?

Lincloln, the pointed headed monkey said, “This “take my ball and go home” strategy is very childish.”

Then take your ‘nanna’, like a good little chimplet, and go back to your tree on the vine you rode in on.

Lincon, the pointed headed monkey said, ” My comments are on point and clearly stated, so much so it seems that the truth I present causes some of you to launch personal attacks just to avoid the issues.”

Have you ever watched the movie ‘A Beautiful Mind’ ? I think you could play the part of that human. You seem to think very highly of your intellect and are a legend in your own mind.

Lincoln the pointed headed monkey said, “I support those who serve our country with distinction… reguardless of political party.”

Then, what is your problem with the great leader and his administration that is serving our country with distinction right now?

Lincoln the pointed headed monkey said, “Please stay on topic.”

You may want to find another tree to practice in. There are no monkeys here looking for lies and ignorance. They only seek and speak the truth.

Posted by: Washington at May 6, 2004 06:21 PM

I find this all extraordinarily amusing, Lincoln.

Do you realize that in every single post you have somehow managed to slip in that you’re a “Republican”?

Every. Single. Time.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Apparently “Republican”, in the parallel universe that you live in, means transparently espousing what would normally be associated (in this universe) with “a bleeding-heart liberal”

But who am I to disabuse you of your idle fantasies? Please, by all means continue.

For all the rest of you “non-stealth” posters (if what “lincoln” is laughably doing could be called “stealth”) the bottom line is not what Kerry did or didn’t do; the problem is he can’t seem to tell the truth about it now. Bush admits a lot of failings as a young man, of which he had many. When pressed for details, the answer is pretty much, “None of your damn business” That, that I can respect. All of us, I suspect would admit to doing things in our younger years that we look back now and say: “God, was I stupid!” Kerry, however, when confronted with things in his past, avoids it and dissembles. First its medals, then not his, then his and somebody else’s, then he never threw them, then he DID throw them, just when they were ribbons, not medals, etc etc etc.

Yes, with apologies to the Cap’n, whose service I respect and admire deeply (I single out Cap here from the rest of the Vietnam vets because he seems to feel the most passionately about this) , I don’t agree with Kerry’s behavior, i personally find Kerry’s behavior following his return loathsome and destructive.

But I can forgive him for that. Because he was young and stupid.

What I cannot forgive is the way he handles it now. Even if he said something like, “yeah, y’know what? I threw the damn medals. I did it and I’m glad!” would be more acceptable to me than this neverending miasma of fabrication that keeps spewing forth from him.

Even though I disagree with Kerry about this, if he stood up and said “I was trying to stand up for something I believed in. I did it. I felt I was doing the right thing. There are people who feel that I hurt them, and although I disagree, I want to know that I didn’t do it to hurt them.”

That I could respect. That would be easier to believe. That…..see….that’s real to me.

Now all you other comedians out there deluding yourselves into believing that Bush isn’t going to mop the floor with Kerry. (Kerry landside—man, I laughed until my stomach hurt at that one) remember this: the average American doesn’t expect truth from politicians, but they would prefer it. And they can also tell when they are being lied to. My four year old tells better lies than Kerry (much to my distress——:) )

Bush is defined. He has been defined for some time now. People have already made up their minds about him.

And the more Kerry talks, the less (or more) he does to help people make up their minds about him. nothing he says or does reinforces the idea that he is a trustworthy leader. Nothing. That is his fault. Not Bush’s. Not VietnamvetsagainstKerry. Not some random doctor. And not the Republican party.

End of story.

Posted by: johnnymozart at May 6, 2004 06:28 PM

Lincoln, what typically Republican positions do you support, and why?

It has nothing to do with the subject, I’m just curious, becuase you go on and on about how Republican you are but the only evidence you ever offer of it is your saying that you are Republican.

What I find telling is that you talk about the deficit as such a bad thing but never mention cutting spending or what you’d like to see cut. That’s a good litmus test.

In addition, in any discussion of whether the tax cuts are responsible for the deficit, almost every Republican would point to the fact that tax revenue for 2004 is greater than that for 2003 as proof that it is primarily spending that caused the deficit, not the other way around, yet you don’t mention that…

Anyway, I wouldn’t care if you were Republican or not, except that you make so much out of your being one.

So I’d like to hear about what Republican policies you think Bush ought to implement when you vote for him in November, or an alternative Republican candidate you’d like to see, or why you think Kerry would be more likely to implement the conservative policies that are, no doubt, dear to your heart—and what those policies are…..

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 6, 2004 06:34 PM

You see, Lincoln, by choosing to preface your remarks about Kerry with being a Republican, you are trying to gain for yourself authority in the argument to persuade us to your view. Since you think we should give your arguments extra weight, because you are a Republican, you’ve made your Republicanism part of the issue. But then you hypocritically decry those of us who bring it up. You want your assertions of
your Republicanism to work for you but you don’t want the absence of any signs of actual Republicanism to work against you.

It’s laughable and pathetic that you argue this way, and your detractors on the thread, no doubt, resent what you’re saying as an insult to their intelligence.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 6, 2004 06:41 PM

In addition, Lincoln, Republicans who are NOT Senators speaking at fundraisers, never say “our proud party” when referring to ourselves.

You write like you think Republicans do. It’s pretty lame.

Why don’t you drop the pretense and try to regain some tiny shred of credibility, and then go on to defend the man you’ll be voting for in November some more?

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 6, 2004 06:49 PM

Hey, Lincoln! It wouldn’t compromise your anonymity to tell us what state you’re from and what Senator and Congressman you voted for last. Or, if you didn’t vote, you could tell us the names of the candidates you supported and what things about them you liked.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 6, 2004 06:52 PM

What’s interesting, Gabriel, from your last post, is that “lincoln” is doing exactly what John Kerry is doing. He makes a point of insisting that he was a Vietnam veteran “hero”, thus making that a part of his campaign, much like Lincoln is doing with his so-called Republicanism, and then complaining and whining that he is attacked when ideas or thoughts or actions inconsistent with that claim receive scrutiny.

Thank you for that object lesson, Lincoln. I could not have more eloquently demonstrated that myself. Strong work.

Posted by: johnnymozart at May 6, 2004 06:53 PM

johnnymozart I haven’t spent a whole lot of time explaining why I am passionate about it, but I too, could forgive the man if he’d own up to his lies. He refuses to do that. NOW. That I was strongly passionate about it thirty years ago when it was happening had little or no effect, because nobody but nobody wanted to hear about the real story of what happened in Vietnam at the time. They took the word of this man without question. It made me feel ashamed to have been part of it.

I do appreciate immensely what you’ve said. I personally thank you for it.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 6, 2004 07:01 PM

Good point, johnnymozart, I hadn’t made that connection.

Reductio ad Hitlerum ahead:

Hitler was a war hero, with two Iron Crosses earned (IIRC) for rescuing wounded soldiers in no-man’s-land in WWI. He was more of a war hero than Winston Churchill, who was very brave but whose war exploits (escaping from a South African POW camp) helped no one but himself; and definitely more so than FDR, who never served in the military at all….

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 6, 2004 07:01 PM

OOOOOO! OOOOOOO! OOO OOO AH AH SCHREECH!

Posted by: Washington at May 6, 2004 07:18 PM

Lincoln,

Do you support Murdering Babies as the Abortion Loving Demons do, or NOT? It is part of their party platform.

It is NOT part of the Republican plaform.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 6, 2004 07:34 PM

This thread is now offically closed.

Posted by: Godwin's Law at May 6, 2004 07:40 PM

Lincoln is a “Micahhawk” - someone who pretends to something he’s not to gain a moral authority to speak on a given subject.

Posted by: J. at May 7, 2004 08:52 AM

Haven’t heard anything from Lincoln. Oddly enough he vanishes when someone asks him to say something Republican.

Do you think he might have only pretended to be Republican?

I’ll be damned if I saw it coming.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 7, 2004 08:58 AM

Washington, why would you compare Lincoln to us monkeys? I know a whole treeful of Screaming Chimps, who didn’t like the comparison.

In response to your provocative offer of May 6, at 7:18 PM, I will have to decline, as I am a happily married Screaming Chimp, but it’s nice to know that I still got ‘it’…

Godwin’s Law, this place never closes. Sure, the band takes breaks and the skits change, but they don’t even bother putting locks on the door anymore.

If you’re going out, however, could you bring back a banana frappe’ for me?

Thanks!

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 09:05 AM

Day by day, the various Veterans Against Kerry groups locate one more piece of the puzzle, and one more soldier or sailor who was there. The following makes total and absolute sense regarding Kerry’s first Purple Heart. The information is from the Brown Water Navy site. The site is by and for Vietnam Veteran River Rats, who apparently know their weapons and ordinance.

quote:
This statement of the doctor supported the original testimony of the gunner’s mate who was along side Kerry when it happened. The only corrections I would make, from what I have discovered and believe, to the doctor’s rendition of the event was that the M-79 round was not really a “mortar” round, though almost every thing that came out of the tube of an M-79 could be colloquially called a “mortar round.” It actually was an illumination round and it didn’t “hit the rocks;” it exploded against the near solid wall of water pouring down in the tropical monsoon as soon as it went far enough to arm itself, about 25 feet.
You see, there was no hostile force present at which to fire high explosive. This is supported by the other crewmen who denied that there was an enemy attack. It was, however, dark and Kerry was scared. So, he tried to fire an illumination round despite the warning of the gunner’s mate, who told him three times not to fire the M-79 into the solid down pour. Kerry didn’t listen to a mere enlisted man and the driving rain detonated the star shell as soon as it went far enough to arm. They both got hit by “shrapnel,” merely small pieces of the thin casing which contained the illumination material and the parachute. Modern, backyard fireworks are more deadly. Only Kerry asks for a Purple Heart, the gunner’s mate was too embarrassed.Unquote.

I am a Vietnam “Era” Veteran. I have checked out this information with two friends who were “In Country” Vietnam and carried the M-79. Both laughed as soon as I brought up the star shells ability to explode in a downpour, and told me that was the first thing you were taught in using M-79 “illumination rounds”. One of the sailors on the Brown Water Navy site stated that he has shrapnel in his gut from forgetting that fact.

Basically, it looks like John Kerry FRAGGED HIMSELF !!

Posted by: ET at May 7, 2004 11:10 AM

The issues I raise bother you so because you know I am right. As a Repulican I believe the power and greatness of our nation comes from the individual. All people should be able to have dignity, be able to express themselves, and of course be free.Government should only provide the very most essential services that we Americans cannot perform ourselves. Less is more when it comes to government. This is quite obvious when it comes to business: let free enterprise work for the people. Our government must also be fiscally responsible and not saddle future generations with excess spending. Republicans like me speak the truth and are not affraid to be realistic and question the companay line.

Now a question for you: Has the government gotten larger or smaller under our current administration?

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 11:11 AM

Lt. General William Odom served under Reagan

http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/

I bet he’s not a Republican either…

.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 11:34 AM

ET Blooper! LOL. I wonder who handed him the M-79 in the first place? LOL. THANKS, man! The pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

Lincoln Strictly ON THREAD, the government (including the military) has grown larger. I would include the office of Homeland Security. Of course, strictly ON THREAD, you don’t have a leg (even a right one) to stand on, so could you, like, keep on topic? You are beginning to annoy me with your rhetoric.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 7, 2004 11:49 AM

I was asked to explain my Republican philosophy. I was taunted for not answering. I explain my heart felt beliefs and now am accussed of being OFF THREAD. If my “rhetoric” annoys you it is because you see the truth in what I speak. I am not triying to annoy only to see if other Republicans are disturbed by the direction of our administration and the dirty unpatriotic tactics. Winning the election is very important…but integrity means so very much more. Decorated military veterans deserve my respect and I am unwavering in this position. If you don’t agree with that, then perhaps you see the strategic blunder. Kerry, a decorated combat veteran, has served his country with distiction. Did Cheney? Did George W Bush? It is a losing issue for us Republicans.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 12:26 PM

The stink I raise bothers you so because you know I don’t shower. As a Screaming Sack of Noise and Smells I believe the power and greatness of our nation comes from the trees. All monkeys should be able to have lunch, be able to express themselves in whatever fashion they find most amusing, and of course be free of facts whenever facts are inconvenient. Government should do whatever we say it should, and should jump to our every whim. Less costs more when Jackals get to handle our money. This is quite obvious when it comes to Jackals: They cannot stand to lose control, money, or elections, so they will grow increasing noisy as November draws near. Screaming Chimps like me speak the truth, and annoy the bejabbers out of Jackals who only pretend to be Elephants.

Now a question for you: Can Lincoln post anything without repeating himself, or proving his identity as a secret Jackal?

I’ll just have a guava while I wait for the answer…

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 12:32 PM

Lincoln Not only are you a NON-reader, you are a stupid non-reader. Get thee away, trollery. I’m through fiddling with your misdirection.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 7, 2004 12:41 PM

Zippy the Wonder Chimp: Do you have children? You have the 4 year mimic whatever I say act down very well. Sadly, your style betrays you and only re-enforces my points. The questions that you refuse to answer over and over will not go away. Like your diapers, your argument is soiled and needs to be changed. But I thank you, your fear to provide legimate rebuttals to my questions proved me right in the eyes of all who read these words. Otherwise, why would you not behave like an adult instead of pretending to be a monkey…

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 12:49 PM

Doctor comes up with a story that supposedly happened 30+ years ago involving firing a mortar close enough so the shrapnel hits you.

neocons: “This is obviously complete factual proof that kerry is unfit for being president.”

Nobody can even remember seeing Bush on duty 30+ years ago or remember him doing a single thing besides some dental work.

neocons: “These things happen, doesnt prove a thing.”

Posted by: dave at May 7, 2004 12:51 PM

Actually, Dave, I don’t think that the doctor’s comment shows Kerry unfit for the Presidency. Kerry’s actions since then do.

However, it is Kerry who has claimed that his Vietnam service is relevant to the campaign on repeated occasions. Your attempt to pretend that it is his critics raising the issue is false.

And what is this neo-con reference? Do we have another problem with lack of tinfoil around here?

Posted by: Robin Roberts at May 7, 2004 12:58 PM

Cap’n, no need to mass fires on friendlies. Just the enemy, and in the case of the metaphor only, the undecided.

Posted by: jeffers at May 7, 2004 01:04 PM

Jeffers, thank you for having the courage to stand up for me!

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 01:31 PM

rofl.

This is hilarious.

Man, you guys, if this is the best your party can muster, you are in deep, deep trouble come November. The way you guys are going, Bush could eviscerate someone with a spoon on live prime-time television and still get reelected

dave, you may of course continue to repeat the same rhetoric that has been roundly debunked, but it doesn’t make you any more credible. Further, just read my post and you’ll see the real reason that people are upset with Kerry. Instead of listening to what we are actually saying, you decided that it would be better or more fun to make up things for us to say.

Mr. “Republican” - You, my friend, are being “taunted” for your transparent attempt to pretend that you are something that you are not, and for no other reason. And believe me, your vapid and vague “ideals” which supposedly represent and support this claim, along with your petulant responses to being challenged only reinforce the notion that you are not what you claim to be; that you are in fact trying to do something to give an otherwise poor argument credence.

But wait!! Don’t misunderstand. It’s still amusing!! Please!! Please continue.

Posted by: johnnymozart at May 7, 2004 01:44 PM

I was asked to explain my Monkey philosophy. I was applauded for answering, but this annoyed the Jackal who pretends to be an elephant; he doesn’t like getting caught. The jackal tried to persuade, even calling his stories “truth”, but the rest of the jungle saw through him and laughed for a long time. The jackal ignored the topic of the thread, and was angry when the lion reminded him what is going on.

I am not trying to annoy, only to see if other Screaming Chimps are disturbed by the Jackal’s tactics. Winning the election is very important, but since Bush will win, many Jackals become bitter when they realize they won’t win. The Jackals like about Kerry, pretending he does not need to answer questions, and they lie about Bush, rasining questions already answered long ago, and pretending scandals which do not exist.

Jackals make more than the hyenas laugh, but the jackals will wail when the election is done. Whether or not they still pretend to be elephants.

PS - I see Lincoln has finally decided to address me, but only by pretending I somehow acknowledge him as an Elephant. Silly jackal!

And I am in no need of diapers; apparently you are in need of glasses?

You seem to fear my rebuttal of your attempts to change the tune, as you should. But the audience knows well, whether a typing chimp or a pretentious jackal is better versed on this board.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 01:44 PM

Call me old fashioned, but I respect decorated vets! I respect the sacrifices made for our great nation. Valor still matters. Sacrificing one’s own interest for the greater good is important! Our party is fighting a losing battle on this issue. Did Cheney demonstrate valor during the era in question? Did Bush? Zippy you may mock me with the intelligence of a 4 year old but it all it does is re-enforce my points. Even me, a proud Republican, questions Bush’s leadership. He has plunged the nation into a war because Saddamm “tried to kill my dad.” Many great Republican thinkers agree that this war is a complete and utter failure. Our administration has done exactly what Bin Laden wanted…we fell for his trap.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 02:14 PM

Lincoln the Jackal is repeating himself, still pretending that the exposure of his mistaken claims somehow support his claim to be an elephant.

Lincoln, I am sorry if you only have the intelligence of a 4-year-old, as you seem to believe, but it doesn’t make me feel like I should let up on you for pretending we haven’t caught you bald-faced.

Screaming Chimps all know, that jackals are not elephants, no matter how much they claim.

Repeating disproven claims won’t win anyone over to the jackals’ side, either.

Monkeys are very good at embarassing people, but here we see that jackals embarrass themselves.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 02:20 PM

Zippy,

A Chimp is not a monkey. It is an Ape.

Lincoln. Give it a rest. A decoration does not give a lifetime pass to do whatever you want. Would you vote Lindberg? What if the decoration was a Ritterkreuz? Or a hero of the Soviet Union? Change your NIC and come up with a more plausible story.

Posted by: jones at May 7, 2004 02:45 PM

Actually, in my context “chimp” is not so much a biological term, as a descriptor for action.

As is “jackal”.

Long live Bonzo!

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 03:12 PM

jeffers Point taken and accepted.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 7, 2004 04:28 PM

Sounds good. Although Jackyl is too good for some of these things.

Posted by: jones at May 7, 2004 04:31 PM

johnnymozart Thank you again. He must have missed the part where I said I would have much less difficulty accepting Kerry’s words if he’d only own up to the lies that he told in his youth. BTW, although I would find it difficult to overcome thirty years of anger, I’d do that - for the simple reason this country needs some HONEST discussion about our foreign policy, which Kerry has yet to (honestly) address.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 7, 2004 04:32 PM

Honesty is very important to me and that is why I must question the Bush administration. It is hard, as a Republican, to question my own team but I feel that Bush’s foreign policy is not his strong suit. Where are the WMD, are the “rape rooms” closed? He even was dishonest about the cost of the war and has created a massive deficit. He represented himself as against “nation building” and where are we now? I am affraid deep down we all know why he started this war…the man said it himself, out loud and in public. Saddam “tried to kill my dad.” I don’t think that the United States military is a proper way to settle family feuds. He should never have allowed his personal issues to cloud his judgement..it is not good policy.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 04:50 PM

Lincoln, now you’re not only repeating yourself, you’re choosing the weakest and silliest things to claim!

The WMD, among other places, seem to have been discovered en route to Jordan, where Al Qaeda hoped to murder upwards of 80,000 people with CW they got in Syria. It’s worth noting that the CW is not only the same VX we were looking for in Iraq, but is beyond the known capacity of Syria to produce. Small wonder you don’t want to admit that…

The rape rooms are closed, mister. Humiliation by a few cruel and stupid guards does not amount to the same thing as a few decades of government-ordered rape and mutiliation. This has already been explained to you, do pay attention…

And so on. Frankly, Lincoln, the President has been remarkably forthcoming, patient, and direct; I’d say the only “dishonesty” to discuss is yours.

Long live Bonzo!

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 05:06 PM

////Honesty is very important to me….////

Heh.

Hehhehheh.

Ha…hahahahahahahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Posted by: johnnymozart at May 7, 2004 05:33 PM

Zippy says:

“The rape rooms are closed, mister. Humiliation by a few cruel and stupid guards does not amount to the same thing as a few decades of government-ordered rape and mutiliation. This has already been explained to you, do pay attention…”

Say what you want, but I hold America to MUCH higher standards than I hold Saddam. Don’t you?

Zippy retorts:
“with CW they got in Syria”

They got CW in Syria and therefore it came from Iraq? If you don’t mind my saying you logic is suspect.

I guess I understand your monkey act…you don’t make any sense when you try to be a human. So please go have another banana freeze.

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 05:49 PM

Zippy here are some more facts…let me know what you think…
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=NW_1-T&oldflok=FF-RTO-rontz&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20040507%2F0741856132.htm&sc=rontz

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 05:57 PM

Nice twist, Lincoln, reminscent of Chubby Checker.

But - unfortunately, you ignored a few facts in trying to squirm out.

Syria can’t make VX, as it was discovered. Iraq could, and in fact had a stockpile very much like what we found in Jordan. What’s more, there is confirmed surveillance of trucks smuggling things into Syria in April 2003, as well as testimony that Syria had the stuff. And, oh yes, there are also 41 confirmed violations of the UN MWD ban on Iraq, including buried mobile labs we discovered, and missiles far in excess of the allowed range. But do please keep ignoring those inconvenient bits of fact and evidence, I’m sure its troublesome enough to you, Al Qaeda, and France, that we found the stuff.

The rest of your double-talk is just bad acting and redundant evasion. I refer you back to my previous retorts, you’re not worth any fresh material.

Posted by: Zippy the Wonder Chimp at May 7, 2004 06:19 PM

Lincoln, it is patently obvious that you looked up somebody’s summary of what Republicans are supposed to believe.

Why don’t you give us specifics, Republican boy? No doubt you can tell us who the major Republican figures are in your state, and what you like and dislike about them?

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 7, 2004 06:23 PM

Not to mention, Zippy, when Iraq permitted weapons inspections they were required to make, in the UN’s words, “full, final and complete” declarations of weapons programs—but they kept lying, so it ended up being a lot more than one:

http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/Chronology/chronologyframe.htm

Mar 1995 Iraq provides the second Full, Final and Complete Disclosures of its prohibited biological and chemical weapons programmes.

1 Jul 1995 As a result of UNSCOM’s investigations and in the light of irrefutable evidence, Iraq admits for the first time the existence of an offensive biological weapons programme but denies weaponization.

Jul 1995 Iraq threatens to end all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA if there is no progress towards the lifting of sanctions and the oil embargo by 31 August 1995.

Aug 1995 Iraq provides the third Full, Final and Complete Disclosure for its prohibited biological weapons programme.

8 Aug 1995 General Hussein Kamel, Minister of Industry and Minerals and former Director of Iraq’s Military Industrialization Corporation, with responsibility for all of Iraq’s weapons programmes, leaves Iraq for Jordan. Iraq claims that Hussein Kamel had hidden from UNSCOM and the IAEA important information on the prohibited weapons programmes. Iraq withdraws its third biological Full, Final and Complete Disclosure and admits a far more extensive biological warfare programme than previously admitted, including weaponization. Iraq also admits having achieved greater progress in its efforts to indigenously produce long-range missiles than had previously been declared. Iraq provides UNSCOM and the IAEA with large amounts of documentation, hidden on a chicken farm ostensibly by Hussein Kamel, related to its prohibited weapons programmes which subsequently leads to further disclosures by Iraq concerning the production of the nerve agent VX and Iraq’s development of a nuclear weapon. Iraq also informs UNSCOM that the deadline to halt its cooperation is withdrawn.

Nov 1995 Iraq provides second Full, Final and Complete Disclosure of its prohibited missile programme.

Nov 1995 The Government of Jordan intercepts a large shipment of high-grade missile components destined for Iraq. Iraq denies that it had sought to purchase these components, although it acknowledged that some of them were in Iraq. UNSCOM conducts an investigation, which confirms that Iraqi authorities and missile facilities have been involved in the acquisition of sophisticated guidance and control components for proscribed missiles. UNSCOM retrieves additional similar missile components from the Tigris river, which had been allegedly disposed of there by Iraqis involved in the covert acquisition.

Mar 1996 UNSCOM teams are denied immediate access to five sites designated for inspection. The teams enter the sites after delays of up to 17 hours.

Jul 1996 Iraq provides the third Full, Final and Complete Disclosure of its prohibited missile programme. The results achieved by the Commission verifying this disclosure, and subsequent attachments presented by Iraq, is described in the Commission’s October 1997 report to the Security Council (S/1997/774).

Sept1997 Iraq provides fifth Full, Final and Complete Disclosure for its prohibited biological weapons programme. An international panel of experts is convened in New York to discuss Iraq?s declaration. The panel unanimously finds Iraq?s declaration to be incomplete, inadequate and technically flawed.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 7, 2004 06:32 PM

Yes—keep putting down our decorated vets…it has taken years to restore the military to a position of respect within our society….continued attacks on Kerry’s or Bush’s military record will hurt this country for years to come…every vet will soon find themselves questioned by the extreme left or right. Please find another issue(s) to attack or support…each side has plenty to offer….

Posted by: Bob at May 7, 2004 09:52 PM

That’s an excellant point, Bob. A point against Kerry.

For it was Kerry who presented fraudulent testimony to Congress claiming that our Vets were all war criminals.

I look forward to you applying this principle you’ve announced and using it in your own life to vote against John Kerry.

Posted by: Robin Roberts at May 7, 2004 11:24 PM

Lincoln Boyo, I’m glad I had a wedding to attend!

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 7, 2004 11:43 PM

“Call me old fashioned, but I respect decorated vets!”

Unless they happen to get together and call his guy…or as Lincoln tries to pretend - the other sides guy…unfit to command.

And has “Lincoln” answered the question of why he apparently thinks its O.K for Kerry to show the ultimate lack of respect for all vets by making a virtual blanket accussation of American soldiers (many, many of whom were decorated) in the Vietnam War being “war criminals” and yet believes that Kerry’s own character should be above question (despite obvious anomalies in his records) simply because he was “decorated”?

Its ironic that “lincoln” defends the person who has shown more disrespect for decorated vets than just about anyone else, based simply on the fact that he was awarded”decorations” (that he threw away/didn’t throw away/threw away a few/only threw a part of them away/wasn’t his anyway).

If “lincoln” really did think at one point that he was a republican I think it might to time to admit to himself that not only is he no longer a Republican, but that his hypocrisy over this issue points to his not even being a descent Democrat, but more of a “Anyone but Bush” moonbat.

Posted by: J. at May 8, 2004 02:06 AM

Lincoln still has not stated whether or not he Supports Abortion as I asked earlier? It is in the Demon platform and John Kerry is the BABY-KILLER supporter that he called all Veterans.

All Democrats are supporters of Murdering Babies if they support the party platform. Abortion is part of the Democratic Platform and has been for many elections.

Back on thread, I asked about the time-line on that first injury for which he claimed a Purple Heart on an earlier post. I was not surprised to learn that this apparently could have been “blow-back fragments of shrapnel” from a M-79 illumination round exploding in a downpour. It figures that he would shoot himself. (He USUALLY hits some other person’s foot. That was the reason for the other person’s medals thing, you know. To him, it was only fair).

For the knowledge of Lincoln and others like him, John Kerry is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY despised by enormous numbers of Vietnam Vets who served in combat. Many of them are Independents! Believe it or not, a lot are also Democrats! The Swiftboat veterans are just the tip of the iceberg. There are other combat vets who are speaking in their local communities all across America. John Kerry is “Truly Unfit” for command.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 8, 2004 04:07 AM

Speaking for myself, who actually is a Republican unlike some of those here claiming the name, I do respect John Kerry’s war service. I don’t care whether or not he really deserved all the medals he got, or how long he was there.

I do not respect John Kerry for the things he has done since then.

The John Kerry commanding Swift boats, he might have been fit to be Commander-in-Chief, many soldiers have been. The John Kerry who claimed falsely that atrocities were widely committed in Vietnam with the knowledge and aquiesence of the whole chain of command, that man was not fit to be Commander-in-Chief, and the Senator who cannot stand for anything, but who always tries to be on both sides of the issue, is not fit even to be a Senator, much less President.

Lincoln, military service is inherently respectable, decorated or not, but it does not confer saintliness or a halo.

30-some years ago John Kerry bravely commanded Swift boats. He’s done a lot of other stuff since then. 30-some years ago George W Bush was a drunk. He’s done a lot of other stuff since then.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 8, 2004 03:49 PM

“Cap’n, no need to mass fires on friendlies. Just the enemy, and in the case of the metaphor only, the undecided.

Posted by: jeffers at May 7, 2004 01:04 PM

Jeffers, thank you for having the courage to stand up for me!

Posted by: Lincoln at May 7, 2004 01:31 PM “

Lincoln, I posted earlier a request to collect and concentrate the stories of Kerry’s perfidy into on document for the purposes of persuading the undecided and to rebut those who’s minds are already made up that he is of sterling character.

Cap’n objected to this, rightfully, because he alreadt has seen all he needs to know regarding Kerry’s courage, honesty, and self discipline.

I then pointed out to him that my statement was not directed at him, but instead, at the enemy and the undecided.

I consider your stated views to place you squarely with the former. Furthermore, I think your claim to be a registered Republican, to be a lie.

Posted by: jeffers at May 8, 2004 04:39 PM

So whats the deal? This isnt the doctor who treated Kerry. How the f—k does he have any credibility on this issue?

Posted by: typhonus at May 8, 2004 11:00 PM

This isnt the doctor who treated Kerry.

Pray tell, then who is?

You are referring to the person who signed the sheet, right? How do you know that it must have been Kerry’s doctor who signed the sheet and not whoever was in charge of paperwork that day?

That question can probably be answered by the Cap’n, who was serving in Vietnam back then.

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 9, 2004 03:42 AM

There’s only one thing to say about Kerry’s medals:
“Easy come, easy go!”

Posted by: Joshua Scholar at May 9, 2004 05:00 AM

Ty-PHOOL-us As usual, I believe you are laying little rat droppings, but I have to say PUT UP OR SHUT UP. I know according to you we never landed on the moon, but if Letson says he treated him in Sick Bay, I think I believe him. The OOD may have signed the paperwork, if that’s what the quibble is all about, or if Letson had his hands in someone’s chest at the time, I’m sure another Doctor would have signed a release for the ScratchBearer.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 9, 2004 07:39 AM

To clarify my statements… I asked about Kerry’s medals and citations just for my own information.

My dislike of Kerry starts with his 1971 Senate lies and his anti-war activities in that time frame. Since then he has only deteriorated in character and honesty.

Posted by: leaddog2 at May 9, 2004 07:43 AM

Good doctor is about 35 years late.
If this story happened good doctor should have spoke up 35 years ago when Kerry was up for getting the purple heart.
Me thinks good doctor has partisan false memory syndrome.
Does anyone really thinks good doctor remembers THAT many specific details from 35 years ago of a wound that he describes as a minor flesh wound? Why would that stick out in his memory.
Me thinks good doctor is not so good liar.

I find it amusing that the Bush backers have no problems believing that practicaly no one Bush supposedly served with even remembers Bush existing during the time he has been accused of shirking his duty.

They answer this phenomenom with, “it was a long time ago, people don’t remember people they saw and worked with everyday after 30 years”

But they expect ME to believe this painstakingly detailed account of a single day 35 years ago about a very boring flesh wound on some guy who was not even famous back then.
hahahahaaaaaa

Posted by: PAUL at May 9, 2004 12:12 PM

Paul Did you even read Dr. Letson’s statement? Since the man served and does remember (I remember quite a few occurences from 35 years ago in the same environment), then methinks you’re cookin’ fowl for supper.

Some of the things I remember are of an equivalent nature. Oh yah - the same type of ‘minor wounds’, too. I never forget a face. Maybe the good Doctor is cursed with the same.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 9, 2004 12:57 PM

So the military awarded Kerry a purple heart and now youve got some shill saying it wasnt as serious as it could have been?

a medical officer other then Letson signed the ‘sick call sheet’… Let us know when you guys have something. or someone with some credibility….
It would be nice if we could take your word for it. But since youve already been pimping out oneill’s opinion of Kerry’s combat fitness even though he didnt serve with him, you dont have any credibility. Just like the president.

Posted by: typhonus at May 9, 2004 02:57 PM

Lincoln, don’t always think that you are anonymous and can spew your crap…..sorta reminds me of Ted Rall, looking over his shoulder and waiting for one of Pat Tillman’s relatives to lay a whooping on his ass!

Posted by: DickD at May 9, 2004 04:40 PM

Whoa, typhonus—you said that Letson wasn’t the doctor but you give no evidence whatever. One person signed the sheet, that’s all you have.

Dipshit.

The Cap’n, unlike you, served in Vietnam, and he says other people besides the doctor actually treating the patient would sign the sheet.

So who was the doctor, typhonus? Give us his name. Why isn’t he speaking up about the fact that some other guy is passing himself off as Kerry’s doctor?

Posted by: Gabriel Hanna at May 9, 2004 06:16 PM

Ty-PHOOL-us It’s nice to sit back and snipe which is your usual bent, without providing any evidence.

Depending upon the amount of ‘traffic’ in an ER/OR SickBay facility, there could be as many as 4, or as few as one single Doctor handling the cases at one time. If Doctor Letson (as I already explained once) had his handls full with another patient who was SERIOUSLY wounded, he wasn’t about to strip surgical gloves off to sign Mr. ScratchBearer out of Sick Bay!

If that’s as much as you got, you’re strugglin’ to stay afloat! I’m getting kinda tired of repeating myself, and you haven’t even bothered to READ what Dr. Letson had to say.

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 9, 2004 06:52 PM

Cap, its nice to sit back and make up another phony excuse as to why some fucktard the Republicans have roled out is at all credible.
First we had that asshat who claimed to have served with Bush in Alabama. Then it turned out that the time that he claims was spent with Bush there took place before Bush’s documentation places Bush in Alabama. Then we had a $10,000 reward for anybody who could credibly claim to have served with Bush in ‘bama and that went unclaimed.
Next we had Oneill stating that Kerry was a poor commander. Then we found out that he never actually served with Kerry, only that he served in the same unit months later. Then we saw Kerry’s officer evaluation reports which were all glowing and filled with words like integrity, maturity, diplomatic, aggressive…
Now weve got the Republicans trotting out their latest asshat and of course he ‘claims’ he treated Kerry. Of course his name wasnt on the sick call report. And of course we’ve got the fact that he was awarded the purple heart which means someone in Kerry’s chain ‘o command thought it was worth it. And of course having gotten two other purple hearts, the bronze star and the silver star, so this wasnt just some isolated incident.
You guys are clearly the dipshits, and your gonna have to pull out some real evidence. Until then your just a bunch of scumbags who want to second guess the medals Kerry earned. Fucktards.

Posted by: typhonus at May 10, 2004 03:01 AM

Typhonus Did you say this? - capn doc- more evidence that your a scum sucking piece of shit. Posted by typhonus at May 9, 2004 02:59 PM

Yup. Not only is it bad grammar (the contraction you’re is what you’re lookin’ for) but your comments are going unread, not only on this thread but every other until you retract.

GOT IT?

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 10, 2004 07:30 AM

Typhonus, your selction of vocabulary, as well as your clear contempt for respected members of this site, shows that you have abandoned even the pretense of a cogent argument and rational discourse.

There are Liberals and Democrats on this site, whose opinion is respected and whose positions are strong. Your style of invective not only removes your name from serious consideration in these discussions, but has managed to diminish the validity of your argument in the main, because of your method. Thus, you are doubly wounded; you cannot persaude using insults and profanity, and you are making the Liberal side look desperate and bitter.

You might want to reconsider the effect, if not the ideal, of your posts.

Then again, you’re doing a great job, from my perspective. An unbiased Independant would be driven to support Bush, by your comments and anger, so if you choose to continue as you are, it cannot help but be good news for the President.

.

Posted by: GDubya at May 10, 2004 10:42 AM

DickD-
Are you threatening me ? I guess we can let the moderator decide if they allow and condone threats on this site…

Are you so affriad of free speech that you have to threaten a fellow American? It seems like you might be a nice fit for a prision guard job in Iraq, Afganistan, or Cuba…

Posted by: Lincoln at May 10, 2004 11:16 AM

Lincoln, you forgot to tell us that you are a Republican.

Posted by: johnnymozart at May 10, 2004 11:33 AM

Lincoln If Admin thought that what DickD said was of a threatening nature, something would happen. OTOH, we can do a fair job of policing ourselves. Are you having a tough time reading again?

Posted by: Cap'n DOC at May 10, 2004 11:54 AM

I know a threat when I see one and so does my lawyer. I have never been so let down by my fellow Republicans. Never before have I seen my party so affriad to address real issues. The threat of physical harm shows our party’s desperation…

Posted by: Lincoln at May 10, 2004 01:08 PM

So, having given up trying to rebut my arguments, you want to complain about my grammer- pathetic.
And you want to complain about name calling- tell it to your scum sucking piece of shit pal cap’n doc (name calling). Frankly though, your trying to besmirtch the reputation a vietnam vet who Earned medals after he volunteered for a combat unit and was subsequently wounded in action. Im calling everyone who lessens Kerry’s service, without a credible piece of evidence of being a scum sucking piece of shit. becouse thats what they are.

Posted by: typhonus at May 10, 2004 01:40 PM

Ty, old chap, I don’t know if anyone has told you, but there are many fine decaffeinated brands on the market…

As for your arguments, you haven’t really put one up, now have you? I’m afraid the judges are quite firm, that personal insults and profanity do not support hostile content