I’ve always been of the opinion that Democracy is a crappy way to run a country.

The problem is there’s nothing better to replace it with.

Posted by: TBox at September 30, 2003 08:54 PM

I’ve always been of the opinion that Democracy and America is wonderful and the only one’s attacking it are ‘babies’ who want to complain just because their own personal agendas are not being enacted.

Just because their candidates are not winning, they complain and complain and complain till their faces turn red.

First they complain that Congress is getting too much money for campaign funds from the average American citizen. Then they complain that voting booths are flawed if they are punch card ballot booths.

Then they complain that Corporate Lobbyists shouldn’t have the right to lobby. They complain that Electronic Voting Machines have Republican Bias. They complain about wanting a paper receipt for their vote.

They complain. They complain. And I for one can’t understand how they live with themselves in eternal ‘Doom and Gloom and Negativism.

God Bless America and God Bless Democracy because I wouldn’t have it any other way!’

Posted by: Jeff MacMillan at October 1, 2003 02:18 PM

National Review neatly guts the audaciously political ruling of the Ninth Circuit (are there ANY other types of rulings from these people?) over the supposed reasons for a 6 month “delay” ruling in the CA recall election.

The ruling was supposedly based on the Supreme Court’s Bush v. Gore, stating that paper ballots, which are concentrated in CA minority areas, had high error rates and therefore threatened to disenfranchise black & Hispanic votes in the recall election.

But the Supreme Court ruled nothing of the the kind. They explicitily stated it was perfectly legal for different counties to have different voting procedures. What they objected to (obviously) was the Florida Supreme Court’s attempts to re-write Florida election laws on the fly to secure a favored outcome (only counting the 5 most heavily democratic counties in the state, for instance).

NR also noted that at no time did the Supreme Court suggest the election be canceled and a new one rescheduled.

So the question remains: what was the basis for the Ninth Circuit’s ruling in the CA recall? But that’s only a question for those who have already willingly suspended logic by choosing to believe the Supreme Court “selected” Bush president.

Politically, these people can’t separate the fireman from the fire.

So remember, if you don’t get the outcome you expect, sue someone - and make the political wing of the ABA happy.

Posted by: torpedo_eight at October 2, 2003 12:42 AM

I have problems with knees, too. As far as engineering goes, they’re crap. Take a gander at the number of knee braces people wear. The knee is the crumple zone of the human body.

But I’ll be damned if I could design better.

Posted by: TBox at October 2, 2003 01:34 AM

Knock knees all you want, but don’t knock democracy, or we won’t have a leg to stand on.

Posted by: dirk strom at October 3, 2003 01:03 AM

Do you really think so? If a method of government were developed that accurately reflected the will of the people, while avoiding the threat of demagoguery, the influence of money, and the lack of sufficient information for informed decisions, would you really cling to Democracy instead?

Democracy is a means to an end, not an end unto itself.

Posted by: TBox at October 5, 2003 02:46 AM

TBox wrote,

” If a method of government were developed that accurately reflected the will of the people, “

Oh put a sock in it. You liberals just complain and complain without the something better. Come up with a ‘better’ democracy and tell us about it. Just whining and complaining is ridiculous. No one listens to a ‘complainer’ if the ‘complainer’ doesn’t even know what could be better.

Posted by: Jeff MacMillan at October 6, 2003 01:35 PM

A string of negatives does nothing but lower your intelligence T-Bot.

“I hate money it influences things” Well no crap it influences! Money is a form of free speech. If I want to send my harned earned thousands of dollars for a bill on the table or towards a candidate, I should be allowed to do it.

I shouled be allowed to go to Washington D.C. and lobby for what I believe in. I should be allowed to do what I can as an American Citzen see fit to do in a Democratic-Republic Government.

How is restricting my voice, my right to spend my own money how I wish, going to make for a better world?

Do you want a dictatorship? You’ll certainly get a dictatorship if the representatives do not have to be held accountable to their actions by the people.

You people make me sick in that you think that being ‘RICH’ automaticly discredits you from being an American Citizen in the same sense that YOU and I are American citizens. On almost any Web Log we get these Youthling - Liberals applauding Hatred towards people who have more money than they do.

Out right disgusting and pathetitc. But, in America we have the Freedom to Hate. Why ask for anything more?

Posted by: Jeff MacMillan at October 6, 2003 01:41 PM

Youthling-Extremist-Liberals… And I call you ‘Youthlings’ as my way of describing young liberals who never matured past Junior High.

Youthling-Extremists-Liberals ‘ONLY’ start talking about disliking money in congress ‘ONLY’ when things don’t go there way.

Would we have had ‘Campaign Finance Reform’ if Al Gore was the president of the United States? I doubt it. I can’t see why with Democrats in Power how we’d ever have all of the ‘crap’ legislation you keep tossing at us.

And the thing is you are never happy. We pass all of this crap restricting our American Freedoms just to please Liberal-Youthlings and it doesn’t deter you in the least bit. It doesn’t slow down the onslaught of ‘whining’ and ‘complaining.’

Waaaah the Punch Card Ballots are disenfranchinsing black people.

Waaaah The Electronic Voting Booths are owned by people who lean towards Republican.

Waaaah There’s no receipt paper in the Electronic Voting Booths.

Waaah. Democracy Sux because this 18 kid just sent $25 to President Bush! Waaaah! I want my pacifier.

Grow up.

Posted by: Jeff MacMillan at October 6, 2003 01:48 PM

Jeff, the problem with politics in the ‘modern age’ is that all problems are blamed on inanimate objects, holding the actors blameless. Personal responsibility, as it was known, has been replaced by a demand to know why someone didn’t keep me from hurting myself. And fascism, when it comes, will come under the guise of ‘what’s best for you’. The fascists will really and truly believe they are keeping you from hurting yourself, all the while claiming to exchange a little of your freedom for more security.

TBox - Recognize the pitch, but some of the terms are warped. Freedom is an end unto itself and governments are constituted to achieve those ends, taking their just powers from the consent of the governed. We do not have a democracy, we have a democratic republic and ‘will of the people’ is a profoundly un-American concept. It is mob rule and the destruction of minorities under the heel of the majority. The idea was rule of law, not will of the people. That’s the kind of crap Che would spout and it has no place in this society. In fact, the only time I hear it is when some elected moron who flunked civics, government and American History starts running their mouth at the microphone. Usually, but not always, a democrat.

Neither party could explain enumerated powers and neither would recognize the 10th Amendment if it bit them between the legs. An exquisitely designed government has been inherited by a group of philistines whose only goal in life is re-election and the reigns of power (think Gray Davis).
No wonder we’re in trouble. Our leaders have either a profound ignorance of the Constitution, or they have made willful decisions to subvert it.

Money does not corrupt, there are corrupt people who take money, but that doesn’t make the money corrupting anymore than it makes pancakes fattening (notice the trend here?). Think about the actor instead of the props. Want to reform campaign spending? Get rid of the restrictions. Publish the names of every individual who gives more than $2000 to any one candidate. Eliminate corporate or organizational contributions. Corporations and organizations are legal constructs, not individual citizens. They cannot hope to speak for any one citizen.

And don’t worry, money doesn’t win elections, ideas do. Otherwise Ross Perot would still be President and Steve Forbes would be his VP. Think hard. Everything you’ve been told about inanimate objects is wrong. Start blaming people - not objects. Maybe personal responsibilty could make a comeback.

Posted by: torpedo_eight at October 6, 2003 09:25 PM

‘Money is a form of free speech. If I want to send my harned earned thousands of dollars for a bill on the table or towards a candidate, I should be allowed to do it.’

And so the top 1% do this. That is why they call it ‘corporate america’ today. The poorer people do not have enough money to have a true voice. And if you say voting is the voice of the people - then the voice of the people is covered by the private corporations that count the votes of the people. Sadly enough, when the question is raised on how our votes are counted it never reaches the headline news. However, the news is beginning to cover the fact that the new voting machines, being electronic, are not secure…perhaps the voice of the people will be heard someday

Posted by: runamukus at October 7, 2003 05:12 PM

runamukus: is it active ignorance, did you not read what I wrote, or is it just your turn to parrot the John Cougar Mellencamp lines again?

Yes, the top 1% contribute to candidates. And the other 99% is encouraged to participate as well. Not corporate America, individual America. Everyone still has their vote, and poverty or extravagance doesn’t alter the number - one man, one vote.

Money certainly helps elect people, but incumbency is a better predictor of success than money. The re-election rate in this country is over 98%. That means that challengers need all the more money to oust entrenched forces for the status quo. All the present ‘campaign finance reform’ does is choke off the money challengers desperately need to make a serious run to unseat a sitting politician.

You think you’re making a solid argument for the little guy, but what you’re achieving, in fact, is the cementing of ensconced politicos in positions they’ll relinquish when you pry them from their cold, dead fingers.

Our government was supposed to be run by non-professionals who would give a couple of years and return to real work. But today it is a nest of parasitic politicians-for-life. Some have been in office longer than I’ve been alive. This is unnatural.

Let individuals, rich and poor, pursue whatever candidate they like and let the contest of ideas determine the next leaders.

Napolean said simple incompetence would explain most conspiracy theories. I’d reexamine yours.

Posted by: torpedo_eight at October 7, 2003 06:02 PM

Unusual ideas can make enemies.

Posted by: Anderson Christopher at December 9, 2003 05:31 PM