I wonder how long Jewish voters will stay in the same party as the anti-semitic Left.

Posted by: Arnold Kling at September 10, 2003 09:46 AM

I wonder how long Jewish voters will stay in the same party as the anti-semitic Left.

Please give some explanation of what you mean by “anti-semitic Left”. Which Democratic leader is anti-semitic? It is my understanding that such simply wouldn’t be tolerated, but maybe there is something I don’t know. Please explain.

Posted by: wetzel at September 10, 2003 10:08 AM

excuse but what country is Lieberman wanting to campaign for, The US or Isreal. Loyalty belongs at home and if Joey doesnt get it he can move there. THere is a world of difference between being Anti Semetic and calling Zionists on their excessive lobbying in washington. Dont like it, bite me.

Posted by: bobo at September 10, 2003 01:45 PM

Wetzel, I can’t speak for Arnold, but first of all, he didn’t accuse any particular leader, although I think you could agree there are some. (Jesse Jackson springs to mind- remember hymietown? There was another more recent Senator, whose name escapes me, that accused the war in Iraq as being a plot of the jews) Now while that is overtly anti-semitic by itself, there has also been a disturbing trend worldwide and especially in certain parts of the Democratic party. Look at college campuses. How about the Jews going to pre-Iraq antiwar rallies in Berkeley who were beaten and had stones thrown at them?

While I think it is hyperbole to call the Left anti-semitic, there has been an increasing, recent and disturbing trend in the fringe elements of your party for making the Jews scapegoats for things..

Posted by: johnnymozart at September 10, 2003 03:14 PM

Stick a fork in Howard Dean - he is done.

Posted by: Red Herring at September 10, 2003 09:53 PM

There is no anti-semetic left… there is only a realistic group of people that understnad the fact that the only way for a lasting peace to be achieved in Israle/Palestine is for the settlements to be disassembled.

As long as the settlements exist over the Green Line there will be no viable state of Palestine. Until there is a viable state of Palestine there will be no peace.

I am a pragmatic American jew living in Germany.

Posted by: matthew crow at September 11, 2003 08:15 AM

Matthew, I would respectfully disagree with the statement “there is no anti-semitic left” because clearly there is based on what I stated above. While I do not disagree with your subsequent statements, they do not explain why you see Jews beaten at pro-Palestinian rallies in California and France, they do not explain why a US congressman blamed the Iraq war on a “Zionist/Pro-Israel lobby” in the White House.

Jews are leaving France in record numbers and going to Canada because of what they perceive as increasing hostility toward them. While I am happy that you have been comfortable in Germany, many aren’t.

This is not isolated to the left, or a policy of the left, but as I said, I’ve been noticing a disturbing and increasing trend towards this behavior, particularly on the left.

Posted by: johnnymozart at September 11, 2003 09:08 AM

The Israelis could dismantle every settlement, tear down the wall they’ve built, give all of Jerusalem to the Palestinians and bend over backwards to get them complete sovereignty over the West Bank and Gaza, and the terror would continue, Mr. Pragmatic American Jew Living In Germany.
Each demand the Palestinians make is merely another excuse to continue their agenda, which is to keep on killing Jewish civilians until there are either none remaining or those that survive have left Israel.
The stated objectives of the Palestinian terrorist orgs have been made more than clear to anyone but the most la-di-da of Utopians, and the terrorist mindset has been well demonstrated over the last few years:

Every time you give them anything, they take it as a sign that their butchery is working and they simply accellerate their attacks, using the excuse that whatever concession you’ve made isn’t enough, you also have to give them this or that. When you do, they come up with still another reason.

So pour yourself another stein of Dortmunder Union, sit back in your comfortable living room, where you don’t have to worry about Hamas or their fellow terrorist orgs and see if you can scare up some informed opinions.

Posted by: Seth at September 11, 2003 09:10 AM

It would be difficult to find an ideology that has caused more harm in history than anti-semitism, so it is crucial to be vigilant to prevent anti-semitism from taking root inAmerican politics. But the idea that anti-semitism is more prevalent in the Left than in the Right is laughable and risable:

“Who will the Antichrist be? I don’t know. Nobody else knows. Is he alive and here today? Probably. Because when he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ. Of course he’ll be Jewish.” - Jerry Falwell

“Fuck the Jews, they don’t vote for us anyway.” - James Baker.

Criticizing Israeli policy in the West Bank and Gaza is not anti-semitism.

And making the point of the value for the peace process for America to be an even handed mediator is not anti-Israel. Everyone knows that you cannot serve both as mediator and as a partisan for one side’s interests in a negotation. Dean is simply making the point that we need to be objective and fair in our roll as facillitator of the peace process.

In my opinion, this attack on Dean, which isn’t going anywhere, by the way, is just a desperate ploy on Lieberman’s part. His campaign is cratering and he’s lashing out.

Posted by: wetzel at September 11, 2003 10:04 AM

Wetzel, I see you picked the stuff in my post that supported your argument, and ignored the stuff that didn’t.

Nevertheless, these things are what they are. I did not disagree that these are not something unique to the left, BUT they have been on the increase ON THE LEFT. I find that disturbing. Do you deny the things that I describe?

As for your quotes, one is misinterpreted and one is not proven. (although I do not find it a stretch to believe that someone said what James Baker said. It is not however, proven, or even overheard)

As for Jerry Falwell, a counterfeit Christ would have to be Jewish. Although I am not, I assure you, a fan of Jerry Falwell, and I would, based on other things Jerry has said, be concerned about anti-Semitism, taking one comment out of context doesn’t support your argument.

What Seth says about the Palestinian cause is absolutely true. The PLO charter still states that their objective is the destruction of Israel. They still have as their flag the entire nation of Israel + West Bank and Gaza on a background. These things have been attempted to be negotiated out by Israel, etc and they have been rebuffed. How can you take someone like that seriously when they say they want peace?

Posted by: johnnymozart at September 11, 2003 02:33 PM

to the american jew living comfortably in germany.
i hope your’e snug and warm by the fireside this coming winter. but do check the ashes, you may find your granparents remains there.

Posted by: homer at September 15, 2003 10:39 AM

Christians Under Attack

By Michael Collins Piper

preteristarchive.com

Democracy in Israel is not for non jews.

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So-called “leaders” of the Christian evangelical movement have agreed to give up spreading the Gospel of Christ in the Holy Land in order to avoid being jailed under a proposed Israeli law aimed at stamping out Christian missionary work in Israel.

Anti-Christian forces led by a wide-ranging group of high-ranking Israeli officials won a major victory on March 30. Representatives of 50 different international Christian evangelical groups entered into what was described as an “unprecedented” joint statement promising not to carry out Christian missionary work in Israel.

In return, Israeli lawmaker Nissim Zvili said that he would drop his sponsorship of a proposed measure before the Israeli parliament (widely supported among various political factions in Israel) that would outlaw any effort to teach or propagate Christian doctrine in Israel. Under Zvili’s highly popular proposal, any Christian missionary found guilty of violating the law would be sent to prison for one year. Zvili hailed the Christian surrender, saying: “This is better than a law. This is a very big accomplishment.”

The Christian groups that surrendered to Israeli pressure, and thereby abandoned their long-standing practice of proselytizing the Christian faith, issued a statement saying that they rejoice in the presence of the Jewish people in this country of their ancestors and agreed to avoid activities which alienate Jews in Israel from their tradition and community.

In response to the surrender by the Christian groups in the face of the anti-Christian legislation, one American Christian evangelist, Rev. Dale Crowley Jr., expressed great shock and dismay. Crowley said that those groups that endorsed the agreement have, in Crowley’s direct terms, “Betrayed our Lord.” Crowley says that purveying the Gospel of Christ to nonbelievers is integral to the Christian faith and stems from the biblical great commission directing Christians to share their faith.

Crowley notes that two newspapers with prominent circulation in the pro-Israel community, Washington Jewish Week and the New York City-based Forward, have “quite notably”, in his words, not reported on this Israeli victory over Christian evangelism. Crowley said that he has been prodding Washington Jewish Week to publish the story but that, thus far, the influential publication has not done so.

“The Israelis want to keep this information under wraps,” Crowley said, “and the Christian groups that entered into this outrageous betrayal of their faith are ashamed of themselves, as they certainly should be.”

According to Crowley, the complete joint statement issued by the Christian groups has been virtually impossible to obtain, despite the fact that some 50 different groups have affixed their names to the statement. Also, says Crowley, the actual names of the 50 different groups that are signatories to the agreement are also out of reach. When the names of those groups are finally made public, says Crowley, Christians should cease supporting those groups since they have effectively betrayed their Biblical commission to spread the gospel by abandoning their missionary work in the land where Christ lived and carried out his work.

VERY REAL PROBLEMS

At the time the anti-Christian bill was first introduced in the Israeli parliament, even Rev. David Allen Lewis, president of the pro-Israel group, Christians United for Israel, admitted that there were some very real problems with the legislation. “This bill means great hardship for Zionist

evangelicals like myself,” said Lewis, who worried that the action would revive the argument of those who question Christian support for Israel, saying, “How can you support the Jewish nation when they are against Christianity?”

When I contacted the offices of Christian evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, both of whom are loud advocates of pro-Israel policy (despite the anti-Christian stance of the Israeli leadership), neither would comment on the anti-Christian legislation. Sen. Jesse Helms (R-N.C.) another vocal supporter of Israel (and ally of the so-called “Christian Right” in the United States), likewise refused to provide me any comment on the anti-Christian offensive in Israel.

Although Israel today is torn asunder by vast feuding among various political and religious factions even within the Jewish community as a whole, the anti-Christian proposal by Israeli lawmaker Zvili had wide-ranging support throughout the Israeli population.

ARCHITECT NAMED

Longtime Republican Party and conservative movement leader John Lofton, previously a pro-Israel zealot but now an unabashed Christian who is not afraid to criticize Israeli excesses, has been watching the anti-Christian offensive in Israel.

Lofton recently reported in his Lofton Report that Clarence Wagner, director of the evangelical foundation Bridges for Peace, was the architect of this agreement, which, in Lofton’s words, “denies our Lord.” Lofton says that “Wagner and his cowardly crew have chosen to obey men rather than God” and that “they have chosen to be ashamed of the Gospel even though,” says Lofton, quoting Romans 1:16, “it is the power or God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

John Alpher of the American Jewish Committee’s Israel/Middle East Office has hailed the sell-out as “a dynamic Christian commitment to the vitality of Israel and Judaism.” His colleague, Rabbi A. James Rudin, the AJC’s “director of interreligious affairs,” said that the agreement is “a strong refutation of those Christians who sadly still target Jews as possible converts to Christianity.” Rudin says that he hopes the statement will be “a model for others to emulate throughout the world.”

NOT PREACH?

Lofton had strong words in response to the AJC’s comments: “For openers, no Christian would ever agree not to preach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Secondly, apart from Christ, there is no “vitality” for anybody, including Israel and Judaism. As for those Christians who “sadly” target Jews for conversion to Christianity, well, the Lord Himself was one of those “Christians.” Lofton concluded: “God forbid that this Christ-hating agreement should ever be emulated, or become a model, for anybody.”

Virtually the only national news publication in America to report on the Israeli war on Christianity was us on March 17, 1997. We published a special eight-page report entitled Israel Declares War on Christianity and told the story of the anti-Christian legislation. The special report featured a ground-breaking essay by the aforementioned Christian evangelist, Dale Crowley, Jr., in which Crowley refuted the popular political theory that the present day geographic entity known as Israel is not the “Israel” that is referred to in the Bible.

Another essay by Crowley, appearing in the same report, concluded that America’s heritage is, in fact, based on Christian teachings and that the term “Judeo-Christian” has no rational or actual applicability to the reality of American history or tradition.

Posted by: Maybe Liberman at September 17, 2003 12:12 AM

Maybe Lieberman:
I find that disturbing. They should be shooting Hamas, not their own feet.

Posted by: CCR at September 18, 2003 10:29 AM

I was angered by sen. liberman’s attack on the confederate flag. as a southern,my symbols are as important to me as the star of david is to a jewish person. I do not attack anyone else’s heritage or symbols nor expect them to give them up. I find base language on tv& other media more worthy of attention than a cheap shot on a group of people it has become popular to degrade. we have no poltical voice. you only force southerns to move away from the democratic party.
consentrate on genuine issues rather than trying to make yourself look good at the exspense of down trodden people.

Posted by: Floyd Fry at November 5, 2003 11:41 PM

The fear of death is the beginning of slavery.

Posted by: Torre Leslie at December 11, 2003 12:23 AM